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Does Whining About Political Correctness in a Racism Debate Correlate to Being a Racist? Does Whining About Political Correctness in a Racism Debate Correlate to Being a Racist?

10-05-2014 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
"Thug" is a racist term in certain contexts. An unwillingness to understand and accept that is usually a racist attitude. (One exception is if you have an impaired ability to understand what it is like to be a victim of racism.)
How about this context? Somebody is big, aggressive, loud, disrespective and generally seems like he might kick your butt. He is called a thug. He happens to be black and gets butthurt. Isn't that what happened to Sherman?

Wasn't there a big white player for Miami involved in a bullying scandal? You'd be correct calling him a thug.

lol to thug being used as code for black. I think Sherman is a great player, but he got heat for acting like a thug.
10-05-2014 , 03:40 PM
Sherman is correct in saying that people are using "thug" as a way to say the n-word without actually saying the n-word. The butthurt comes from racists who are upset about people trying to take away their new verbal plaything after having their old verbal plaything taken away.

There may be white players who fit the dictionary definition of "thug", but the disproportionate use of it to describe blacks is racism in action.
10-05-2014 , 03:54 PM
Like I mentioned, politically-driven drivel. Just because racists wink and nod using a word other than n*****, doesn't mean every word they use becomes taboo. We may as well stop speaking English.
10-05-2014 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMor29
Not necessarily skeptical, just curious. Not knowing about a connotation of a word does not make me a racist, especially when its overwhelmingly more common use is to describe a violent criminal, not a black person.

I despise both UKIP and the BNP, again, stop being so hysterical.
You just have to get used to Fly. He should come with a warning but his harmless once you get used to the nonsense.

Being informed about offensive terms across the pond is useful though I expect I'm going to trip up on 'thug' because its a fairly common term that in my head is so deeply associated with something that isn't conceivably racist.
10-05-2014 , 04:31 PM
A reverse example is that I am led to believe that "spastic" and "spaz" are considered horribly offensive in the UK but not so in the US, something that popped up again when Weird Al used the term in "Word Crimes".
10-05-2014 , 04:50 PM
We are getting to part of the program where the relevance of harshly criticizing casual use of many words comes under question. Back to the 'theory of shaming'. What was that supposed to accomplish in spots like thug, spaz, and autistic; and old southern white man?
10-05-2014 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
A reverse example is that I am led to believe that "spastic" and "spaz" are considered horribly offensive in the UK but not so in the US, something that popped up again when Weird Al used the term in "Word Crimes".
Yes offensive here. A fairly dramatic change occurred here because 'spastic' was originally an inoffensive term for cerebral palsy. The widespread common usage later became a problem. I remember it fairly well as it was a big issue at the time, eventually the spastics charity changed its name to Scope because of it.

Common usage in different countries is a bigger problem. Can't expect French Tennis to change its sponsorship deal with Bank National Paris because it looks to the English like its a huge supporter of the British National Party. Even so I imagine if the French BNP wanted a big presence in England they would have to consider a re-brand.

Last edited by chezlaw; 10-05-2014 at 05:04 PM.
10-05-2014 , 05:07 PM
So many wack M.C.'s you get the T.V. bozack
Ain't even gonna call out your names 'cause you're so wack
But one big oaf whose faker than plastic
A dictionary definition of the word spastic

Last edited by zikzak; 10-05-2014 at 05:07 PM. Reason: RIP MCA
10-05-2014 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie
We are getting to part of the program where the relevance of harshly criticizing casual use of many words comes under question. Back to the 'theory of shaming'. What was that supposed to accomplish in spots like thug, spaz, and autistic; and old southern white man?
The shaming thing is mostly nonsense.

Its easy to understand why people with cerebral palsy and their families were being harmed by derogatory usage of a word associated with them so educating people was useful. Some people are a bit bone-headed so shaming them helps but it easily becomes an extremely dubious tool as we see.
10-05-2014 , 05:23 PM
If you're not American or you've been in a coma for the past 30 years, it's perhaps understandable that you are unaware of the way that "thug" has become a racially charged term in American culture.

Of course it can still be used in a non-racial way, as a generic violent criminal (almost always unintelligent). I think Obama called Bashar Al-Assad a "thug and a murderer" last year. Maybe in the UK thug just means "hooligan".

But in the US, the word at some point started to take on a new meaning in certain contexts: black people who dress, act, or speak in a way that makes white people scared or uncomfortable. In the wake of Trayvon Martin, Richard Sherman, and Michael Brown, it seems impossible for any informed person to be unaware of this.

And if you are unaware of this, you'll be missing a significant part of the cultural conversation. You'll pass right over the subtext of headlines like "McConnell Decries ‘Thuggish’ Obama Administration" (last year) and "Ted Nugent Slams 'Ferguson Thugs'" (3 days ago).
10-05-2014 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
So many wack M.C.'s you get the T.V. bozack
Ain't even gonna call out your names 'cause you're so wack
But one big oaf whose faker than plastic
A dictionary definition of the word spastic
Shoulda never started something you couldn't finish
Writing rhymes to me is like Popeye to spinach.
10-05-2014 , 05:29 PM
Children with extreme ADHD can be rather spastic. One of the symptoms I experienced from having PTSD was involuntary body spasms. Panic attacks can cause a person to spaz out. I really hadn't considered the medical side of the term before or much how the idea is considered in further away places.
10-05-2014 , 05:30 PM
Thug has earned 4 letter word status.
10-05-2014 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Yes offensive here. A fairly dramatic change occurred here because 'spastic' was originally an inoffensive term for cerebral palsy. The widespread common usage later became a problem. I remember it fairly well as it was a big issue at the time, eventually the spastics charity changed its name to Scope because of it.
Same exact sequence (medical term becoming a widespread term) happened here, but for some reason it isn't thought of as being offensive here.

I have really mixed feelings about it. It can either be humanizing or dehumanizing. The problem is that it is sometimes difficult to tell which a person is being.
10-05-2014 , 05:39 PM
Regarding racial politics and language, I'm reminded of the Philip Roth book The Human Stain, which was made into a decent movie starring Anthony Hopkins.

A college professor notices a couple of students haven't shown up to class a couple of weeks into a new term. He asks the class if anybody knows where they are and whether they might be "spooks", meaning phantoms or ghosts. It turns out the missing students are black, a huge controversy and racial witch hunt ensues, and ultimately the professor is forced to resign.

The twist:
Spoiler:
The professor is actually black, but has been passing as a white man for most of his life.
10-05-2014 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyCrash
Speak for yourself. I have respect for them. A lot more than I do for you.
Your respect is not a point in their favor.
10-05-2014 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuker
Regarding racial politics and language, I'm reminded of the Philip Roth book The Human Stain, which was made into a decent movie starring Anthony Hopkins.

A college professor notices a couple of students haven't shown up to class a couple of weeks into a new term. He asks the class if anybody knows where they are and whether they might be "spooks", meaning phantoms or ghosts. It turns out the missing students are black, a huge controversy and racial witch hunt ensues, and ultimately the professor is forced to resign.

The twist:
Spoiler:
The professor is actually black, but has been passing as a white man for most of his life.
The internet imitates life and art?!

Or perhaps we are participating in a yet to be properly classified and fully-explored form of art.
10-05-2014 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos
How about this context? Somebody is big, aggressive, loud, disrespective and generally seems like he might kick your butt. He is called a thug. He happens to be black and gets butthurt. Isn't that what happened to Sherman?

Wasn't there a big white player for Miami involved in a bullying scandal? You'd be correct calling him a thug.

lol to thug being used as code for black.
Well, yes, we know what thug means, that doesn't mean that people can't use it in a racial manner.

It's like if your brass instrument with a telescoping slide gets water-damaged, you'd be exactly right to call it a rusty trombone. That doesn't mean that people aren't right to laugh at you when you say "I love my rusty trombone!"
10-05-2014 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldnDark
Like I mentioned, politically-driven drivel. Just because racists wink and nod using a word other than n*****, doesn't mean every word they use becomes taboo. We may as well stop speaking English.
Look, this is a public service announcement for all of you morons who don't pay attention to the way language is used. No one is saying you can't use "thug," so use it all you want. However, most non-racist people would say "Oh, 'thug' is used by racists? I had no idea. Since I don't want to look racist and I don't want to offend black people, I won't use it."

And then there are mother****ers like you who say "**** black people. I don't give a **** if they are offended. And I don't care if I look racist because I'm a smart guy and **** blacks anyway. I may even increase my use of the word "thug" so I can complain when people call me a racist! Plus **** blacks."

The fact that you *******s would rather whine about not getting to talk like racists than consider the feelings of your fellow human beings in not in the least bit a surprising revelation.
10-05-2014 , 06:37 PM
Thread has achieved the level of consideration of the feelings of and for fellow humans. Set goal marker.
10-05-2014 , 06:38 PM
You're going to have to start labeling your split personalities so we can keep up with them.
10-05-2014 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
Same exact sequence (medical term becoming a widespread term) happened here, but for some reason it isn't thought of as being offensive here.

I have really mixed feelings about it. It can either be humanizing or dehumanizing. The problem is that it is sometimes difficult to tell which a person is being.
Its quite possible that although the word usage has developed in the same way it was still used significantly differently. Its not uncommon for us lot to struggle with nuance with you lot and it was a lot worse in the 80's

Here it was quite a nasty derogatory term and I don't think it was a close call to put it on the PC list. Not that I've studied it of course, just my considered view from the time. I can easily imagine in the USA it was more benign.
10-05-2014 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
So many wack M.C.'s you get the T.V. bozack
Ain't even gonna call out your names 'cause you're so wack
But one big oaf whose faker than plastic
A dictionary definition of the word spastic
I'm impressed. Very derivative of early 1980's rapping though.
10-05-2014 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
Look, this is a public service announcement for all of you morons who don't pay attention to the way language is used. No one is saying you can't use "thug," so use it all you want. However, most non-racist people would say "Oh, 'thug' is used by racists? I had no idea. Since I don't want to look racist and I don't want to offend black people, I won't use it."

And then there are mother****ers like you who say "**** black people. I don't give a **** if they are offended. And I don't care if I look racist because I'm a smart guy and **** blacks anyway. I may even increase my use of the word "thug" so I can complain when people call me a racist! Plus **** blacks."

The fact that you *******s would rather whine about not getting to talk like racists than consider the feelings of your fellow human beings in not in the least bit a surprising revelation.
Communication can be tricky. If I were trying to make a point about behavior of a specific group of violent people, and I knew there were a reasonable chance it could be taken wrong, I would do something like the black leader in the video above. I'd use more words than necessary to specify I'm not talking about anyone but that specific group of violent people. If there were still a misunderstanding, I'd attempt to clarify further. However, I'd not be concerned with the motivations of people who chose to ignore those efforts.
10-05-2014 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2
I'm impressed. Very derivative of early 1980's rapping though.
The author of that rhyme is a notable 80's MC who has passed away. He has a park named after him in Brooklyn N.Y.

RIP MCA

      
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