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Old 06-29-2015, 01:36 PM   #201
Winning_TD
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Still low season. Will give it some more time. Not going to pull the plug just yet. I would like to see these succeed also.
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Old 06-29-2015, 08:25 PM   #202
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning_TD View Post
Still low season. Will give it some more time. Not going to pull the plug just yet. I would like to see these succeed also.
Pull the plug as in get rid of what you just created, when it was all just created a week ago? Not sure why this was released during the wsop. No low rec grinder is going to think about playing online if they are at wsop...they also spent money to travel there and aren't missing poker yet. Will take a very long time to start seeing success, if any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idun215 View Post
So looks like the higher buyins still not hitting their guarantees while the lower ones seem to consistently go over it. I say add more $3-8 buyins and then move the $10 and higher buyins to 90mins.
That's because now the same 15 people can't buy in for 3 hours, but only once....
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:23 AM   #203
trade2win
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

When will you be rolling out the improved payout structure to all tourneys?

I'm looking at the 150 buyin and it got 55 runners but you paid out 12 spots, that's nuts. This should be 6 spots max in a 55 player event.
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Old 06-30-2015, 03:38 AM   #204
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by idun215 View Post
So looks like the higher buyins still not hitting their guarantees while the lower ones seem to consistently go over it. I say add more $3-8 buyins and then move the $10 and higher buyins to 90mins.
Personally the least satisfying kind of tournament for me is one that lasts a long time and only offers relatively small prizes.

If I'm playing a marathon-length tournament, there had better be a big potential payoff.

If I'm playing for relatively small prizes, the tournament needs to be relatively brief.

I suspect most players feel the same way I do. So I'm not surprised that the lower buy-in GI60Ms are doing well.

Along those lines, the last two tournaments in the Big 10 series seem to fill up, but that doesn't mean that they are structured optimally for players or WPN. They are the least satisfying kind of tourney - long tourneys with low guarantees.

Suggestions:

- The 11:15pm Eastern GI60M needs to have a $3 or $5 buy-in instead of $25. There just isn't a big player pool at that hour for a buy-in of $25. But a lower buy-in tournament at that time that won't stretch from Jimmy Fallon to after Matt Lauer would be appealing.

- The last Big 10 tournament needs to be a $10 buy-in instead of $3. I think it would generate more revenue if there was a more substantial reward for that late night marathon.

Players looking for a long duration, low reward tournament for whatever twisted reason (kidding) (kind of) would still have the second to last Big 10 to play.
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:28 AM   #205
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

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Originally Posted by bef99hwk View Post

That's because now the same 15 people can't buy in for 3 hours, but only once....
Why are you even here? I mean that seriously, I've seen you post relatively constructive things from time to time, but it seems like you're really here just to be a hater most of the time. And it's getting annoying to see you trying to fan up a fire in virtually every thread. We get it. You don't like WPN's tournament structures (and nevermind that WTD actually is trying new stuff out.) There is no need to repeat yourself over and over in every thread you can.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:37 PM   #206
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

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Originally Posted by Boney526 View Post
Why are you even here? I mean that seriously, I've seen you post relatively constructive things from time to time, but it seems like you're really here just to be a hater most of the time. And it's getting annoying to see you trying to fan up a fire in virtually every thread. We get it. You don't like WPN's tournament structures (and nevermind that WTD actually is trying new stuff out.) There is no need to repeat yourself over and over in every thread you can.
Haha i'm here to find out info as to whether to play these and what is going on with the future of this site. I have money on here and am a paying customer. My post before this one was constructive...opinions can be debated on whether it is constructive, and that quote you had of mine is indeed not...but it's mostly the truth. So, while it may stir up the fire a bit, if it's true, it's true.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:35 PM   #207
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Actually playing some mtts tonight on here since I got on soon enough and want to kill myself with a couple. Why are there zilch GI60s for low players right now? Everything onward is a turbo. FWIW, if I wasn't such a nit with this online roll, there's nothing to play. Over the last 2.5 hrs, there's a $5 300gtd (old schedule), $1 plo (old schedule)...I had to throw in an 11 GI60 just because there was massive overlay (which I just busted 2 min after the late reg closes....fyi guys this had 190 overlay in a 500 gtd. After that I see a $2 turbo?

I think the staple of the evening for lower stakes guys is the $7 KO 1k....even then, that takes until midnight CST or later just to get to money. Just load up a bunch of 100-300 gtds with <$10 buy in during evening, all with GI60. This is too tilting busting out of one mtt and not having anything else running.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:56 PM   #208
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

I agree with Alex and bf99hawk. The lower stakes should be full of gi60.

The don't carry overlay and there more geared for the low stakes grinder. Once we bust or cash(bust) I want to register as soon as Possibly. I think thats the tyPycal behavior of low stakes mtt grinders.

Also they will!!! Grow. The major complaint of acr tournament, s was the 3 hour late and the fact that acr was full of nits and grinders who actualy love those things.

Most people who were hesitant to switch to acr was because of the 3 hour and nit/rec ratio..

They will only grow..but the majority should be in micro/low and just a sprinkling in the higher avenues. If your going to have gi60 in med/high satalites are important..
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:37 PM   #209
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

I think anything over 60 mins is ridiculous for late regs. 3 hr late reg combined w/multi-entries is just a straight up money grab for wpn and it's not even a smart money grab if you look at the long term health of a poker site. I think in some cases a 3 hr late reg and/or multi-entry mtts are fine, but if it's the norm, it's just bad business. I'm not going to get into why multi-entries are bad there are enough threads on that subject on 2p2.

I think it's bad for the rec player who doesn't want to play for 4 hrs and not cash and has no chance against regs that deep. Stars and ftp at least pre bf did it right. deep play during the 1st hour. During the 2nd and into the 3rd things got shallow, and then when things mattered it got deep again. So bloating the starting stack so that more ppl will re-enter is a bad idea.

wpn is in a fantastic place right now. Bovada's software is garbage and merge can't pay out in anything close to timely fashion. I really think there is an opportunity for wpn to corner the mtt market. I think anything under 55 should be gi60s and no re entries, it's good for everyone.
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:42 PM   #210
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

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Originally Posted by DeuceSeven View Post
I think anything under 55 should be gi60s and no re entries, it's good for everyone.
0 chance you are going to get both 60 min late reg and no reentries. You'd end up with a bunch of people complaining about tiny guarantees.
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Old 07-05-2015, 10:05 PM   #211
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

I played several gi60 today

4$/300
3$/150
10$/500

the first 2 passed the gtd the last won missed by 160..

there was a 3$ 500 gtd with lot of rentries and 3 hour late. just over a hundred original people and the average rentry was 2.3 per person.

it paid 36 spots with mid cash being under 6$ it went for like 5 hours. I don't get it.. if I remember right, I think first place was less then the gi60 300. and at least in the gi60 300 if u make the bubble you double your money.

im sorry I don't get it. these will grow. give it time.

instead of reentering with that kind of diluted time and pay just enter the gi60.
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Old 07-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #212
AlexTheOwl
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesparten1 View Post
I played several gi60 today

4$/300
3$/150
10$/500

the first 2 passed the gtd the last won missed by 160..

there was a 3$ 500 gtd with lot of rentries and 3 hour late. just over a hundred original people and the average rentry was 2.3 per person.

it paid 36 spots with mid cash being under 6$ it went for like 5 hours. I don't get it.. if I remember right, I think first place was less then the gi60 300. and at least in the gi60 300 if u make the bubble you double your money.

im sorry I don't get it. these will grow. give it time.

instead of reentering with that kind of diluted time and pay just enter the gi60.
The marketing emphasizes the reduced late reg, not the benefits.

The reduced late reg is not a benefit in and of itself. The benefits are the shorter duration (for a non-turbo), the smaller fields, and the bigger payouts for even the first player to be eliminated while in the money. (Maybe there are others that I'm missing?)

The GI60M name is all about the reduced late reg.

The banner ads I've seen are all about the reduced late reg.

When I click on the banner ad, the first line of the page that appears is all about the reduced late reg:

"The late registration period is much shorter in these action-packed tournaments, so you’d better act fast! Don’t be late because you’ve got just a one hour window to grab your seat before the clock runs out."

To be fair, at the bottom of that page, (just) one of the benefits (smaller fields) is finally articulated:
"You no longer have to navigate through big fields and hours of late registration to hit the money!"

Not everyone is automatically going to understand the advantages of reduced late reg.

Even for players who do understand the benefits of reduced late reg:

- Quicker non-turbo tournaments
- Fewer enemies to conquer in the later rounds
and
- Bigger payouts

all have a lot more surface appeal than:

- You'll need to be prompt!
- yadda yadda action! yadda yadda

There are hundreds of books and articles on the importance of emphasizing benefits in marketing. Here's one: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...-features-tell
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:32 AM   #213
bef99hwk
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexTheOwl View Post
The marketing emphasizes the reduced late reg, not the benefits.

The reduced late reg is not a benefit in and of itself. The benefits are the shorter duration (for a non-turbo), the smaller fields, and the bigger payouts for even the first player to be eliminated while in the money. (Maybe there are others that I'm missing?)

The GI60M name is all about the reduced late reg.

The banner ads I've seen are all about the reduced late reg.

When I click on the banner ad, the first line of the page that appears is all about the reduced late reg:

"The late registration period is much shorter in these action-packed tournaments, so you’d better act fast! Don’t be late because you’ve got just a one hour window to grab your seat before the clock runs out."

To be fair, at the bottom of that page, (just) one of the benefits (smaller fields) is finally articulated:
"You no longer have to navigate through big fields and hours of late registration to hit the money!"

Not everyone is automatically going to understand the advantages of reduced late reg.

Even for players who do understand the benefits of reduced late reg:

- Quicker non-turbo tournaments
- Fewer enemies to conquer in the later rounds
and
- Bigger payouts

all have a lot more surface appeal than:

- You'll need to be prompt!
- yadda yadda action! yadda yadda

There are hundreds of books and articles on the importance of emphasizing benefits in marketing. Here's one: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...-features-tell
This I agree with....it's like they marketed it towards people on 2+2 who already played poker and cared about the difference.
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:35 PM   #214
Hammerzitzen
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Yeah even a lot of the regs I know didn't know it was steeper payouts.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:09 PM   #215
thesparten1
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

it was fun. I don't know the xact numbers but the average rentry for the 3$/500gtd was over 2 and the last cash out spot was barely over 1 entry, for a 3 hour late... the gi60 for 4$/300gtd made the gtd and the last cashout spot was double your entry and first place for both tourney was similar.

the gi60 had a way smaller field. why aren't you guys joining the gi60,s //

I love the payout structure for the gi60 ad I didn't cash...lol but at least I feel I could AND actually make money...

the 10$ gi60 and the 30$ gi60 are similar just bigger money. why aren't you guys crushimg them.

Last edited by thesparten1; 07-06-2015 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:01 PM   #216
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

What they need to do is take out these higher buyin g160 and add more $3-8 buyins. I myself like to play multiple tables but if there is just g160 every few hrs it kinda sucks.
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:10 PM   #217
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by idun215 View Post
What they need to do is take out these higher buyin g160 and add more $3-8 buyins. I myself like to play multiple tables but if there is just g160 every few hrs it kinda sucks.
+1 -- exactly.........
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:11 PM   #218
Hammerzitzen
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Ever consider maybe turning the GI60s into something like On Demands where when X players register they pop off with X guarantee?
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:19 PM   #219
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Seriously.... Try and grow your MTT business, the 3 hour late reg is miserable and should not be the norm. Add more GI60s (Below $20s) so we can multitable these more often and take shots into higher buyins that offer the 3 hour late reg.

1. Your model should be heavily weighted towards $20 and under in the GI60s. Smaller fields = less variance and the grinders will grind them

2. The 3 hour late Reg (LOL) should be for higher buy ins with higher prize pools.

My opinion is WPN needs a healthy MTT offering that appeals more to the masses then it can build a higher MTT offering... The masses = lower buy in = quicker turn over in games... No one wants to play 5-6 hours for small prize pools...

Not like it matters, but I never really play MTTs for the sole fact of the 3 hour late reg. However I started playing the GI60s and like them and will play more if available..
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:08 PM   #220
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLRussians View Post
Seriously.... Try and grow your MTT business, the 3 hour late reg is miserable and should not be the norm. Add more GI60s (Below $20s) so we can multitable these more often and take shots into higher buyins that offer the 3 hour late reg.

1. Your model should be heavily weighted towards $20 and under in the GI60s. Smaller fields = less variance and the grinders will grind them

2. The 3 hour late Reg (LOL) should be for higher buy ins with higher prize pools.

My opinion is WPN needs a healthy MTT offering that appeals more to the masses then it can build a higher MTT offering... The masses = lower buy in = quicker turn over in games... No one wants to play 5-6 hours for small prize pools...

Not like it matters, but I never really play MTTs for the sole fact of the 3 hour late reg. However I started playing the GI60s and like them and will play more if available..
This has been said multiple times, myself included. Really hope they listen.
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:39 PM   #221
edpeezy
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

The $20 rebuy starts too early and should probably be lowered to something like a $10. Add on should be for 3000 instead of 2500 too. (last part is me just selfishly wanting a little more play.)

I understand why the $6 rebuys have deeper structures. It's because of the late registration. It just inherently doesn't seem to make much sense though. Just because it's 1 hr late registration doesn't mean it has to be fast. You can still structure it a little deeper. I'd guess it's mostly regs in that thing anyway.

I think one improvement for these would be to keep the smaller buy ins the same structure wise but changing it up a little bit for the bigger buy in GI60's. (Not that there are many.) Making them a little deeper. Just because they are all 60 minute late registration doesn't mean they all have to be structured fast. Give the bigger buy ins more play.
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:53 PM   #222
thesparten1
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s


Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLRussians View Post
Seriously.... Try and grow your MTT business, the 3 hour late reg is miserable and should not be the norm. Add more GI60s (Below $20s) so we can multitable these more often and take shots into higher buyins that offer the 3 hour late reg.

1. Your model should be heavily weighted towards $20 and under in the GI60s. Smaller fields = less variance and the grinders will grind them

2. The 3 hour late Reg (LOL) should be for higher buy ins with higher prize pools.

My opinion is WPN needs a healthy MTT offering that appeals more to the masses then it can build a higher MTT offering... The masses = lower buy in = quicker turn over in games... No one wants to play 5-6 hours for small prize pools...

Not like it matters, but I never really play MTTs for the sole fact of the 3 hour late reg. However I started playing the GI60s and like them and will play more if available..
Well said..
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:13 PM   #223
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

I am heading that way. To keep the GI60M all low and micro types.

Changing the $1500 as its a killer. The $20 R/A isnt so bad.

Thoughts on what to replace the $1500 with?
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:38 PM   #224
AlexTheOwl
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning_TD View Post
I am heading that way. To keep the GI60M all low and micro types.

Changing the $1500 as its a killer. The $20 R/A isnt so bad.

Thoughts on what to replace the $1500 with?
One type I don't see represented in the current GI60M schedule is deep stacks with long levels. I know there are plenty of those with three hour late reg, but not GI60M. Maybe a low or micro tourney with 15 minute levels and 5k SS?

This would allow a lot of play, but still have a smaller field by the time players are close to the bubble.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:57 PM   #225
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Re: 60 min LR MTT;s

If you did that would it not defeat the object of having shorter tournaments. I want to keep the same structure in these and if you did a 5k starting stack and 15 min blinds. It could take 3 - 5 hours.

Just my thoughts? I am happy to always try things
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