I still think a lot of the problem is just really craptastic creative writing.

agree that they havent give guys enough of a realistic chance to sink/swim and the two guys LKJ mentioned are prime examples but having to have Cena main event everything shows the lack of depth at the top of the roster.

Also lol at HHH as COO and Orton doing anything being any kind of defense of the current talent pool.

Yeah, i still maintain the problem is creative and not talent and the talent today is about as good as it ever has been.

The sentiment is half right that they have lost a lot of main event talent and havent replaced them, but at the same time this isnt because the talent isnt ready and able to move up but because they havent let them.

OK, so we have 8 main eventers to find

Miz, Punk, ADR, Sheamus (disagree with 'maybe'), Cena, Orton, Christian, Big Show - that is 8 solid main eventers, with Jericho covering 9 if he comes back which is expected to happen at some point.

Waiting to move up and at various levels of almost ready are:
Cody, Bryan, Wade, Truth, Ziggler and i guess Henry slots in here

So that is 6 more almost main event guys who could have a world title match within a month or two and it wouldnt be weird (unlike if Ted Dibiase or Ezekiel got a match then it would be weird) and several of which could be world champ by WM and i dont think anyone would say they got there too soon.

The thing is, i dont think a company is being ran well if all those people named had title runs within 5-10 years, which is more or less an entire career at the top. Belts will always be held by the best of the best and the only reason i think those old top awesome attitude guys are considered more numerous than the current generation is because the belt got rotated more amongst a wider pool (to the point where Angle had a reign one time of just 15 days and Mankind had a 1 day reign) and the none belt stories had more prominence. Now the belt is kept in a smaller pool, though swapped for short reigns still, and significantly the B level stories are pretty meh, esp on the other belts which are basically just meaningless props now to the point im not convinced the IC title is worth more than Rider's Internet Champ belt.

If they had the creative drive today that they had then we wouldnt have this conversation at all. And by creative drive this has nothing to do with PG vs 14 etc, its how we are just 11 days from NoC when all belts must be defended and Cody has no feud whatsoever and Ziggler is sorta feuding with Riley and Swagger, but not in a way anyone cares about at all. This just wouldnt happen a decade and change ago.

I get most of the hate for Cena but I really don't get the hate for Orton. His fued with Punk leading up to Wrestlemania was great. Every match they had was good. His fued with Christian was even better. It seemed like every match they had was better than the one before it. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an Orton match that I hated.

Orton Miz royal rumble was a snoozer

But I agree fully and I rly like Orton. He even adds to his move set every few weeks just to show hes always trying new things

Solid Post Phil and I agree with much of it. This may be a chicken or the egg argument. I just think having superior talent >>> superior Creative esp when the talent is allowed more creative input.

Actually that's another thing I hate now, I keep hearing the writing staff has the vast majority of the creative power in WWE and I think that's a significant mistake. It should be at least a 50/50 thing. After all, it's the wrestlers' careers, they should have some pull.

(And the wrestlers tend to know what will work for them better.)

I'll probably catch major heat for this, I'm a pretty big Miz fan but his matches are pretty horrid. Awesome mic skills and I truly believe he has in ring talent but that Punk-Miz snoozefest on Raw two weeks ago, and somebody mentioned the Orton-Miz snoozefest as well, Miz-Cena at WM were all really really NOT awesome. Punk is obv an incredible worker, say what you want about Cena but the guy can work his ass off when he wants (usually ppv's) and Orton has developed a really diverse and wicked moveset and excellent physicology in the ring. Miz is better than that..right?

the thing is with the current roster--Miz's mic skills are so important that any in-ring flaws are having to be overlooked. They have lots of guys who can put on a good match and very few who can make us care about the match.

This could contribute to the lack of main event talent currently. We know that so many guys in the 90s, from Scott Hall to Jericho to Austin himself, made themselves stars after the writers had given them terrible material.

Truer words have never been spoken, but when Miz looks the way he does he better work his ass off to get better in the ring so he can secure the main event spot for a long time to come. The guy absolutely loves the business, loves playing the heel, and he's working very hard outside the ring doing appearances, commercials, etc.

Don't you talk about the Ringmaster that way.

About 450K of the buys were from outside the US. In UK I believe the price is around £15, which is about $25. The price is probably lower in other countries also.

Yeah, they charge less when its on at 6am

yeah this was basically teh point I was trying and failing to make

I tend to agree that Miz is amazing at everything but in ring work which can leave plenty to be desired, but he is a decent worker and i think most of the problems in his reign was how he was booked which was never dominant at all which the majority of his matches were won via Rileyferance.

I seem to recall some very solid matches in the build to him taking the belt, but nothing immediately comes to mind. Fwiw i have no problem with him being awesome with Truth making the tag belts relevant in time for KoW, Young Bucks and the Briscoe Brothers being brought in. I think they are the perfect heels now and agree strongly with the B&W dude that next year they will be a great babyface team for some new heels to come in and challenge when they get established. I honestly think Miz is the best tag wrestler in the WWE right now and the format suites him perfectly.

As for Orton im not a huge fan. I think he is a good worker and i like what he is turning into on Smackdown where im appreciating him more. For a while he was wrestling the same match week in week out and rarely bringing anything new and i dont think the legacy did anything but kill time (it certainly never launched any top flight careers for anyone), but now he is bringing in new variations and moves and really developing the apex predator from a broody says little but crowds love him cos his finisher is awesome generic unstoppable wrestler into a really unhinged psycho that pulls flying jumping jacks in the ring and doubles down on tabling Christian cos the crowd wants it with these awesome little mannerisms where he smiles at getting hurt and licks his bloody thumb while posing with the belt. Id like to see him put over someone as he does that less than Cena (which says it all) and if he launches Cody into orbit by jobbing at WM i could learn to truly love the guy.

I still believe he needs another great wrestler to bounce off in order to put on a great show (yes, that includes Ziggler) and i think thats why he never did anything great with Cena despite them being the top heel and face for a while (Cena is the same way and needs someone great to bounce off). I just wish he lost more often and did less lobbying backstage. I think NoC should be a good test for him and his character, if he makes Henry look good (and doesnt even need to lose, with Henry over at HIAC making more sense) he will really cement his place and i think he is gonna have a great year on Smackdown regardless. I want to be a guy who says Orton is the best in the company, i know i should be, but im not quite there yet.

I'm in the same boat with some of the Orton love. If you keep him off of the mic and let his ringwork and mannerisms tell the story, he's no longer Boreton. But once he gets the stick in his hand, it's sleepy time.

He's consistently putting on the best matches on every card he's on, or at least near the top in quality.

WWE RELEASES KEVIN NASH
By Dave Scherer on 2011-09-07 13:52:15
Whether this is storyline or not, here is what WWE just posted on their website.

Kevin Nash released

WWE has come to terms on the release of WWE Superstar Kevin Nash as of Monday, Sept. 5, 2011. We wish Kevin the best in all future endeavors.

I believe it as much as the "CM Punk suspended" one after his "shoot" pre-MITB.

Still a smart move by WWE.

Well HHH did "fire" Nash on Raw so it makes sense WWE would post something like that on the website. It's pretty much 100% that it's a work.

Yeah, gotta be a work. He is the head trainer at FCW when he isnt jackknifing Punk on TV.

Nash being a head trainer still is LOLtastic.

They went from Steamboat to Nash? lololololol.

lol tna, this cracked me up more then it should:

awesome brand synergy.

When Andy and Luke went to Florida to prepare for the final match/episode of Tough Enough, Steamboat was the head trainer who worked with them.