Totally agree. BBJ create a buzz....especially when you advertise them (I'm looking at you Horseshoe marketing dept.) There is a reason why almost every poker room in the Country has one and not some Plinko promotion. Very few actual poker players buy in hoping to get their name called for a promotion or high hand, if it happens great. But a busy room with NEW players taking a shot is what great poker rooms are made of.

Also, the 2-5 game. We all can agree the $2,000 buy in killed the game and while the $1,000 is a little better, its time to go back to the $500 max. I have heard the argument that the games are better now with the higher buy in, thats if one actually gets off. Its simple, run two 2-5 games...one with a $1,000 max and one with a $500 max. Then see which one runs more and which one the players want to play at. My money is on the later.

The games were horrible from the time the place opened which is why they changed the buy in...if I'm gonna play in a bad game at least give me one where Im not going to lose all my money to rake which is 500 cap NL. The place does an ok job running the place now they just were horrible the first year.

As for promos, the promos that encourage people to walk around or nit up the games like the Christmas promo are bad for the room in the long run. At least high hand you actually have to play hands.

As it is, all promos are extremely reg-friendly and don't really draw new players to the room. The 12 days of Christmas promo would be a great example of one of the least recreational friendly promos.

The Christmas promo is a joke. I didn't play at all during it this year because last year was so bad. Went in a day or two after Christmas and played some $2/5 and guys at the table were talking about some people who basically had a full family playing the whole promo, and raked in about $15k (their estimates, not mine). You could literally go in there and nit it up/fold every hand for 12 hours a day (which from my understanding is basically what these people did) and still come out with a nice chunk of change even after paying blinds for that long. Just put that money into the BBJ or a holiday freeroll or something. So many better uses for it, but they'd rather cater to the overtime regs who will waste their lives there for a few $k.

I heard it was closer to $20K for the family.

Yup. I hit a few of those Christmas drawings, but I played when I'd normally play. The games were so unbelievably bad the entire span of the promo. I couldn't imagine playing all day for two weeks to win a few thousand. Seems absolutely miserable. The promo is the epitome of catering to regs since a new or casual player has a significantly smaller chance of hitting the promo than a reg.

Drop that $225k they gave away during Christmas into the BBJ, raise the min-BI for 1/2 to $100, and watch how awesome the room is.

This new Big Deal promo is pretty bad too. You gotta play about 8 hours to hear 3 drawings, and once the top prize is gone nobody is going to care about it at all. I feel like the 'Shoe misunderstands the purpose of a promotion. It's supposed to attract new players, not give money back to the regs that are there every day anyway.

Wow 20k?!?! So that family is up like 5k on the year 😂😂😂😂

We'll if you don't play the rest of the year you are still up the money. Which means they are doing better than 98 percent of poker players in cleveland. Pretty tough to beat 1/2 rake for much of an hourly.

I assume the room manager looks at the Christmas promotion as a success because it got the numbers for the room up, but she should actually listen to the players and dealers opinions of it which won't be as good.

I don't really mind people gaming the promo. If they are going to offer you a way to make 20/30 an hr for doing nothing but playing super tight might as we'll take it. They might just want to consider a different promotion.

Currently two 5/10 NLH/PLO games running with four people on a 10/20NLH interest list. Crazy. I wonder what's going on in Cleveland this weekend?

What's going on is Cleveland is a great poker town. Which is why two cancelations of the Circuit event and these stupid promotions that cater to regs camping out are such a waste. Put the money into the BBJ, build up the reserves and promote the BBJ and room. Regs would be happy with all the new players, new players would be happy at the chance to win tens of thousands for sitting, and management would be happy at the room full and the buzz it creates for the rest of the casino. So simple.

Poker-playing NBA players in town. 5/10 gets going every time athletes who play are in town.

This room only gets by because Cleveland is such a great poker town. The xmas promotion was a complete joke, again... It's really hard to attract new players when the floor people are just laughing and talking to regs on a first name basis while just handing them $500 every hour. Oh, and it looks really good when everyone is allowed to rack and color up to black chips at a 1/2 game at 3:30 so that they can get a head start on bolting out of the door once the drawings end.

Anyways, game wise 1/2 should be $100 min, $200 max. I suggest the 100bb ceiling because I think that it should also be the min buyin at 2/5, which I think should be 200-500. It generates action, allows people to feel more comfortable shot taking, etc. I like what they are doing with the tournament series. Big MTTs still put the new asses in the seats, and bringing people out of town is a huge key to long term success. They need to seriously trim the fat with all of these stupid promotions. Making sure that the BBJ stays at a very large number is probably the most important promo they could have. The regs can bitch and whine, but the big numbers bring in more (and way less skilled) players, which ultimately boost your winrate and ensure that the games don't dry out. It's way more important than having an extra $5 in ev for high hand or some **** at like 3 am.

I think they look at it as they know they have one or two extra tables going at odd hours because of the high hand or other promotions, thus, they like the promo games or high hands. Obviously, it would be better for serious players to make the min buy 100 but they probably lose some players in the short run which is why they don't do it. Does not mean it's right but that's the reason why things are this way.

If someone is a good player, no reason they can't beat the 1/2 Cleveland game for min of $18/hour, more likely $20/hour, and within 4-5 months playing 2/5.

They ràke 10 percent up to 60 so if you are not playing in a juicy game you are not winning imo. And getting paid 20 an hour at a normal job is better than getting paid 20 an hour at poker when you are risking your own money and likely trying to save to move up stakes (and moving up stakes not that easy when there is only one or zero 2/5s running in town...). I just come down once a week have a beer and enjoy myself as grinding poker for a living seems worse than having a job.

I disagree for the most part. Between the high rake (10% up to $6 plus $1 promo), $1 dealer tip, and the low min-BI, win rates at 1/2 in Cleveland are capped kinda low. The number of short stacks in these games really hurts and makes it difficult to beat the rake for $18/hr or more. You'd basically have to utilize supreme table selection where everyone is 100bb deep and grind all your hours during peak times (weekends). But not many people are willing to spend 30 hrs every weekend in the casino. If a reg is playing 30-40+ hours every week, he or she is probably playing a large chunk of it on weekdays.

The games are better on the weekends but they're still good during the week as well. Players are very bad which should be the main thing you're targeting.

They're very bad with 25bb stacks and they're very bad with 150bb stacks.

Altering your game based on stack sizes should be basic play. So while you'd like to be at tables with all larger stacks it doesn't really matter if your practicing optimal play.

The rake is tough to beat for so many players simply because they play far too many hands. And of the hands they do play they're playing them way too passive. There is just no defense against the rake other than tightening up you play.

If you're VPIP is over 20 you're playing too many hands. If you're completing all you SB hands, too many hands. If you're flatting guys IP without good implied odds, too many hands.

It's easy to think about the time you played some junk connector to a $15 raise when the effective stacks are 100bb and you stacked the guy but the fact remains that this is a losing play and players who do it are long term losers with this play.

This is a vast majority of the "deepstack regs".

Again, all bad players, despite this reg monicker we adding them.

It does matter. Imagine an extreme case where the max BI at 1/2 was $50. The game would be mathematically unbeatable in the long run because of the rake. Point is - the less money that is on the table the more the rake hurts. I'm not saying you shouldn't be looking for the weakest players when you table select, but if there is a massive fish at a table where almost everyone is short stacked, you're better off going to another table.

The satellite that ran tonight had added value, only 24 runners. 2 seats plus extra cash for 3-5

Anyone been playing the Saturday WSOP sats? How have those turnouts been? Seems like a good way to day booze before heading down to play some tables but curious of turnouts thus far.

I lived in the Akron/Cleveland area between 17-30. Live on Kellys Island. There is an amusement park close by in Sandusky that has the biggest, baddest, highest, fastest roller coasters in the world. The place is called Cedar Point & I just googled it & it came up The Roller Coaster Capital of the World. And - they keep that place very clean.

Or live in the Medina /Bath area. I lived in Bath....beautiful country. Ahough we had a neighbor about a mile from where we lived who I never met, but my little sister was in Revere high school the same time this guy was who later became very famous. None other than Jeffrey Dahmer. He killed his 1st victim there b4 he moved to Wisconsin.

Also if you live in Bath/Medina area - you'll only be a few miles from where Lebron lives now. I got a high school buddy that lives on Hametown road in that area and he is only about 1 and 1/2 miles from Lebron. But my buddy isnt real wealthy....so although he has a nice house in a wooded area, Lebron's place would make my buddys place look like a place some of Lebrons help could live.

Actually, if you have to be very close to Cleveland - nothing I've mentioned here would probably work for you. But I've lived in 6 states in my life & I always liked Ohio more than any other. I'd love to get in a time machine and go back.

i'm a cleveland native who has since moved to columbus and has no desire to move back.

having said that, choose something outside of cuyahoga county.

I've lived in greater Cleveland the majority of my life, in, arguably, one of the best places to live (Chagrin Falls,) and my only advice is this:

Don't.

All the natives and no one recommends the area? LOL

is it because of -

the drive
the fumble
the burning river
the decision
Johnny Football
Jose Mesa
the Browns
the Cavs
the Indians

??? alright - what am I leaving out?

i mean, mostly it's the ****ty weather and the ****ty economy. i'm still hopelessly a fan of the indians and browns, leaving the city ain't gonna do anything about that.