I was thinking the same thing when it started looking like this UB thing could be legit. I emailed Stars which is the only site i have real money on and this is their response:

Hello XXXXXXX,

Thanks for the email.

We are of course aware of the discussion online about Absolute Poker.
We have no more information about the situation than you do; we can
only read the threads posted online. Absolute Poker is not affiliated
with PokerStars in any way, and we do not use the same software. It
would be inappropriate for us to comment on this situation.

However, we recognize that the online discussion may make some people
generally doubt the security of other online poker sites. PokerStars'
software was developed under strict security controls. Here are some
facts about the PokerStars software and its development.

> In the early days of software development, the concept of having a
program that could view hole cards live in order to help testing was
discussed. It was explicitly decided against that idea, specifically
to avoid any potential problems like the one that is being discussed
in the forums. That decision stands, and no such software has ever
been developed in PokerStars software to view hole cards live in real
time.

> PokerStars does record all of the hole cards in all real money
hands. This is an important tool to help us investigate fraud and
collusion. However this information is not accessible to anyone until
after the conclusion of the hand; it is not transmitted to our
database until all action is completed and the pot has been awarded.

> To be clear: Nobody at PokerStars can see or know the hole cards of
any hand in progress. Nobody in senior management, none of the
software developers, no support representatives. Nobody at all.

> All software updates are reviewed by several people before being
deployed. All sensitive changes are also personally reviewed by the
chief software architect to help ensure they are stable and secure.

> In our company history of more than six years, we have had no
indication of any breach that would allow anyone to see the hole cards
of other players.

> We are aware that there are some programs that claim to make it
possible to see other players' cards. We have investigated many of
these programs, and have not found any that do what they claim to do.
Some of them are actually malware, programs that compromise the
security of whoever installs the software. But mostly they are simply
scams; attempts to steal money from people who believe incorrectly
that they will get a competitive edge. In truth, they do not
compromise PokerStars security.

> We have a large team of Poker Specialists in our Support Team who
review all suspicious situations and escalate to the Game Security
team if they find anything, which in turn will escalate to the senior
management team if any serious problems are found.

The security and integrity of our games is of paramount importance to
PokerStars. I hope that I have been able to alleviate your concerns.

Please let us know if you have any more questions or concerns.

Regards,

Michael S
PokerStars Support Team
- Show quoted text -

You can buy this prog for $20 which lets you record
http://www.freecorder.com/freecorder...ming-media.com

or check out http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/06/h...ersations.html

Yes. Stars needs to allow datamining and no "opt out" for commercial/public databases. All their pros need to make their HHs available for public inspection a la Raymer previously submitting his tournament HH for 2p2 inspection and comments thereto. And any other measures that they can implement to enhance transparency and the free flow of information for players to help protect themselves.

We should be entitled to a demonstrably fair game for the "fair" rake that we pay.

gTg

Google "Pamela call recorder"

It's free, but has limitations: 15 min. max recording, and it there's an audible "warning" that lets both parties know that the call is being recorded.

If u "buy" the product, both of these limitations are removed.

trambo -- http://www.pamela-systems.com/

Our data goes back to August, 2005. Trambo is correct on the stats quoted above.

- http://www.mypokerintel.com

One thing that has been on my mind, and maybe could be cleared up for me.

Q. Why would superuser accounts be created?
A. To test the software at the very beginning of the Online Poker Sites opening to the public (AP situation).

So wouldn't all sites create "superusers" to test there software and to make sure that pots were being awarded to correct players etc. BEFORE the site went public?

Otherwise how would they be able to confirm that the software wasn't screwing up?

SDC,

"Otherwise how would they be able to confirm that the software wasn't screwing up?"

Um, analyze logs after the fact?

If the KGC will revoke UB's license it will mean a lot to UB because they won't be able to find another place to host them.

Stars is replaying each Sunday Million FT with cards open for everyone to see. All sites should do the same for their big tournaments.

Wow.

David, trambo, and everyone else who had a hand in uncovering this: thank you very much for all your work.

FCKKKKKK, I got busted.

Yeah that is one positive thing that they have done. I think that they did it after the wcoop finals fiasco wherein only one finalists agreed to allow their hole cards to be shown on replay. Even Vanessa Rousso refused to allow her holes cards to be revealed. I think that all the 2p2 threads on same were deleted at the behest of Stars' attorneys .

I sure hope that they continue to decline Lee Jones' idea of daily screen name changes.

Yeah, if Full Tilt would replay with open cards you really could "play and learn from the pros". The pros have adapted to hole card cams for wpt/wsop etc. Any potential strategy that they would reveal would be more than offset by the additional appearance of security to their player base. The name pros should "teach" us anyways as partial payment for the rake they make. lol



gTg

I've never liked that idea either and Cake's 7 days is too quick too IMO. Every 3-4 months though is very reasonable. You can still be able to track regular players, change it up so others have to relearn you and the fish would like it too because I'm sure some of them feel like they get followed everywhere.

i agree. all high stakes winners pls leave immed.

If you are reading this Phil... my comment about the recording was not a personal shot at all. I merely was thinking of recording it so I wouldnt pass up or forget any key facts you stated during the phone call. If you are uncomfortable with me recording that is perfectly fine and I do not need to do so.

I was thinking along the lines of what El Diablo mentioned. We should try to get as many of the high volume UB players as possible to sign on to a letter outlining the minimum(full refunds lengthy explanation of what happened/how etc) that we expect from the site before we ever consider playing on the site again. We all sign it we all send it and we all stop playing. IF we could get a few of the affiliate sites to join in that would put a little more weight behind it. Better if we all go out together then dropping off one by one.

Apparently Victor would like that at least.

Edit: not yet

ESPN late night runs a TON of UB commercials with Phil talking about how great UB software is, etc. Would alerting Gary Wise (or Wisehand Poker or whatever?) or any of their poker writers be beneficial?

On one hand this publicity is obv horrible for online poker, but on the other, something has to be done, right? They obviously dont care one iota for the players.

I'd honestly rather have online poker take a quick hit where all the facts are out in the open. Once they are addressed and well known by the public, they can't be overlooked. This is definitely +EV long term and would shape our community for the better. **** like this CANNOT be ignored.

I also echo another poster's sentiments that the remaining sites should go out of their way to prove **** like this cannot happen. I would also like to hear kyleb's take on this and his statement on Stars' security.

Wow, thanks trambopoline, david, jmx, and everyone else who helped get this out in the open. **** UB, im going to go play on prima.

wow phil was all fired up in chat at 25/50 just a min ago

the fact that people would even consider going back is the reason places like UB and AP don't care. A number of 2p2ers went back to absolute because the fish ratio was greater and the overlay on the guarantees were greater. Sadly the AP scandal was as bad as it could be and in a few weeks all was forgotten and it's business as usual. Keep fighting the good fight but the way I see it UB/AP or any poker site for that matter doesn't care about you guys. Do they want Mega sharks who constantly drain and busto their pool of customers, or do they want a bunch of casual players who win and lose money back/forth until it's slowly all dropped to the rake.

LOL UB probably has a scheme to have 1 or 2 mega fish to draw all the good players. The good players will win money at other sites and bring it to UB for 1 or 2 fish and then they'll cheat you. haha it'd be the perfect way to do it.

what discovered by whom?

ProPoker Superusers: Players. (site takes no action)
Party SNG bots: Players.
Party sidebet bots (cheating the site): Players (?).
UB limit bots: Players. (site takes no action)
FTP limit bot crackdown: FTP (?) (these cases subsequent to the 1 u mention)
PS multi-accounting crackdown: PS (?) (change in policies?)

Whenever the sites seem to initiate action, it's hard to be sure. Maybe players who don't post here reported the trouble.

"**** you. I'm not coming back no matter what." - isn't a very strong negotiating position.