Few things, it was averys gun that was used. You are suggesting his gun was stolen by bobby, used to kill teressa, then returned above stevans bed without him knowing?

The bones were moved in what sense? how did you determine this with so much certainty? It is beyond the scope of possibility that bones were taken from the burn pit by animals? You do realize that the bones were burned with tires, there were tires found melted into the bone. Not that tires could not have been used elsewhere but needless to say there are no traces of burned tires at the quarry.. Assuming that is the other location you are talking about.

There is dna in her car, how did his blood get there. (I know what the doc suggests and I also know why its nonsense but I am not making assumptions here and will let you tell me what you think)

god you are a horrible, horrible poster.

cognitive dissonance is when your beliefs are challenged and it makes you anxious. I know very well what this means, others are demonstrating it itt.

Really? that was the lead up question.. Wanna time mark this in the confession for me? Because I saw the confession and I do remember them bringing up her head at different times during the video but not as a lead to that. So please, can you show me where this happens?

No no no, he was a witness before march 1st. He said he saw toes in the fire and that stevan had told him not to say anything. He said he was scared. So they put him and his mom in a hotel away from the avery and questioned him on march 1st, that is the confession when he admits to everything for the first time, the rape, murder, everything.

most of the other stuff wasn't addressed toward me and I don't agree with a lot of the stuff the other guy said anyway.

Ill have to find it but I specifically remember the hood latch dna being after march 1st. I could have made a mistake somewhere though.

It was.

You don't seem to understand that it doesn't strengthen your argument.

Seriously, how inept are these forensics people? You're processing a car that has a victims/owners blood in the back, you see that the battery has been disconnected.

Instead of swabbing/dusting for prints, you wait ~6 months to swab it? And it's been in police custody that entire time (along with numerous other pieces of evidence from the same case).

And, to top it off, when you do finally swap it ~6 months late, you don't change your gloves in between processing other pieces of evidence from the case?

Yep, april 5th, william tysons testimony. https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ow4lwzec...16_07.pdf?dl=0

Valid points, I believe the hood latch was swabbed because of his testimony though.

Why do people keep saying he didn't change his gloves? Where is that coming from, I can't find the source of this claim.

No, I'm suggesting that someone else killed her. Remember, in order to do a ballistics test, they have to fire the weapon and examine the bullet. Since the rifle was in police custody for 6 months before the bullet was found, we clearly have means. 2nd, since there are shell casings everyone on the property, doesn't that sorta point to the fact that they've been firing the rifle at some point in the past? Doesn't that sorta mean they might find a bullet in a tree or junked car somewhere? Only took Lenk 6 months, but he got'er done.

I assume they got more than enough DNA from Teresa's house in order to tests, so getting a sample so small it could only be tested once doesn't seem that difficult. They also had the car at the impound yard with her blood in it for 6 months. But apparently "Happy Hour" Culhane couldn't even get that right.

I understand how its possible for it to happen that way in a world where several people are conspiring with each other yet keeping it secret, but I do not see how it is "reasonable" to suggest any of those things. The simplest explanation is just that steven shot her. Also, I would have to double check but there was something from the Newhouse testimony about the bullets being a certain age.

As I suspected, you don't actually know。 There's a fantastic book called Mistakes were made (but not by me) by two eminent psychologists on the subject. I suggest you read it. Although you can start with this: http://www.instructionaldesign.org/t...issonance.html
TLR version: you have two competing ideas in your head. For example; you believe that you're a good person, but you're cheating on your wife (which you know is wrong in theory). that produces cognitive dissonance, that you try to resolve, usually by rationalization.
The only way I see it being relevant to this case is people who have the belief that cops are always/nearly always good and confronted with the evidence that they're often scumbags. Now THAT would be some cognitive dissonance.

saus has posted the transcript of the interview leading up to this just in the last couple of pages. If you've actually watched the documentary it's unforgettable if you know anything about false confessions (a topic covered in the book I mentioned).
You were saying before that up to the point where the cops ask about "what happened to her head?" they were on Brendan's side. That is false. Perhaps before the interview started you would be correct.

Welp, I might agree with you if the scenario was left just as you mentioned here. Unfortunately there are literally 100 problems with that scenario that present a ridiculous amount of complexities. When trying to determine the simplest solution as it seems you are doing (as per Occam's Razor), you can't also simplify the problem. The equation isn't: 1) Remove all the complexities to your problem and disregard any facts about your problem that might lead to a solution you are unwilling to accept. 2) Now determine which solution is best by which one is simplest.

Occam's Razor has continually been misapplied here so I'll take a shot at it:

Situation: Steven Avery is charged with murdering Teresa Halbach. The irrefutable evidence is that he was the last known person to see her alive. Her car was found on his lot with his blood in it and her bones were found in a fire pit in front of his house.

Problem: The bones are known to have been moved using a burn barrel. The fire was not likely to be hot enough or burn long enough to burn a body to the degree it was burned. His DNA and fingerprints are not in the car. The car was found under extremely suspicious circumstances and he could have used a crusher to hide it much better. The police involved have found evidence that points to them being either completely inept or guilty of planting. They have done this before to this person...and on, and on...and on......and on.............................and on......and on.

Simplest Solution: Steven Avery did not kill Teresa Halbach and is being framed by the police for doing so.

How is it complicated to understand that the shady and at best unproffessional police work give a reasonable doubt to the whole thing and make the sentence stupid by casting a shadow of doubt on any evidence.

Nobody has been able to disproof the documentary: odds were against steven again guilty or not and that not how justice is supposed to work.

Now instead someone who has been wrongly convicted is waiting for a miracle proof because he was guilty untill proven innocent instead of innocent until proven guilty like it should have been, and his ****ed up of a nephew is spending 10 years in jail for refusing to testify against his uncle for a shady plea deal between a ****ed up lawyer and a ****ed up DA.

People coming here and saying as far as i know he killed a cat and was a bad person that s enought for me to convict him but thinking that the same person spending 18 years in jail for something he didnt do isnt a big deal is mindboggling

for the reccord we all know that steven was/is a moronic redneck who most likely would have end up in jail anyway, yet this time was unfair.

Good post.this trial was an absolute sham but SA's character is garbage.What's worse than people who act like it isn't are the idiots who think the cops did a good job and aren't corrupt vermin.

Well as long as it's simple lock two people away for life.even if they killed the same person twice in different ways in different places.

Does anyone know why the woman that was dating him at the end of documentary is is ex-fiancee now?

Is Zellner getting her information from lostinsauce?


Also, from skimming through the posts, it seems like the problem between fraley and a lot of others comes down to miscommunication: most people are discussing the facts from the show, while he's discussing the facts from the trial. Unfortunately, they're not the same thing.

Have you seen the letters he writes?

A+

Not to mention that the bullet was given to her with the instructions to place him in the garage or trailer, and she was actually dumb enough to write this down. That should take away any credibility of any DNA results that came from her.

Maybe

Yes.

If I wanted guesses and speculation I would have asked that.

Do you have any factual information about why they broke up?

No offense, but just look it up?

http://wbay.com/2016/01/18/steven-av...ds-engagement/

I've already argued for the unfathomable improbability of all these things happening just perfectly so that the conspiracy didn't come to light. It's pointless. It's like arguing with a religious fanatic. You also missed the fact that absolutely zero evidence has to come to light of the "real killer" and then no one gets a bit loose while drinking and lets something slip or develops a conscience. Also, all this conspiracy helps at the very time Steven (with two ****ing E's for Christ sake!) had the support of some of the best legal minds in the state via the Innocence Project and also happened to have massive media spotlight and was buddying up with the governor and other politicians.

It's just unfathomable to me how an internet poker forum full of people who are capable of calculating odds cannot see how absolutely absurd and improbable the totality of that is.

I saw this years ago. Very good doc.

No. It was a joke, lighten up.

I can give you a quote from Steven's letter to Jodi though: "You pay me then we are done, I will give Sandy sex 4 hour's of love!!!"

http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk...ter-tmz-01.pdf