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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

01-16-2016 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
The cops told him they just needed his help and he wouldn't get in trouble because steven made him do it. They're allowed to lie to you here in the greatest country on earth. They got his guard down and got him to tell the truth. It was damn fine policework tbh.
wow you're dumber than i thought.

being a scumbag cop and getting a fake confession out of an idiot 16 year old isn't great police work. he's in jail for 40 years and there is a decent chance the real murderer is out there.

good police work is actually getting to the truth.
01-16-2016 , 01:44 PM
I think the standard operating procedure of offering a deal is often a worse injustice than lying in an interrogation.

Confess to lesser crime and get 5 years in prison or potentially life?

Functionally that's the equivalent to using torture to get a confession.
01-16-2016 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep Making a Murderer
There is basically a whole county of people with motive to frame Avery. They see an inbred hick who got cleared of rape on a technicality and is now going to be super rich.
If by "technicality" you mean, "he didn't do it," then yes.
01-16-2016 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kioshk Making a Murderer
Theresa's brother was a real smug ******* thru the whole thing. Like a rug that ties a room together. And he definitely liked being on tv, just like that ********** lawyer Len Kachinsky.
Agreed. He came across as such an insufferable douche. Of course, I can't imagine what it's like to be in a situation where one of your family members has been brutally murdered. Nevertheless, you'd think at some point someone would have the awareness to suggest that he stop talking on television...maybe sit the next few plays out. His interviews were almost as if he was a member of the prosecution.
01-16-2016 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet Making a Murderer
I think the standard operating procedure of offering a deal is often a worse injustice than lying in an interrogation.

Confess to lesser crime and get 5 years in prison or potentially life?

Functionally that's the equivalent to using torture to get a confession.
Agreed, pleas are bad for two reasons: they let bad guys go earlier than they otherwise should; and they force innocent people into copping to something they didn't do. The problem is the criminal justice system would collapse without it.
01-16-2016 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti Making a Murderer
also, didn't see any posts on this, but the opening credits (especially the music) are just awesome
Yep. As we were watching a few nights ago, my girlfriend commented, as I was thinking the same thing, about how sad it is to see the pictures of Steven as a child. It just makes you think about how much of this guy's life has been taken away from him.
01-16-2016 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
f by "technicality" you mean, "he didn't do it," then yes
well 1/2billion chance that the DNA was not Allen's * 1/5.5million that it was someone else in Wisconsin * 1/16^16 chance that 16 of SA's alibi witnesses all told the exact same alibi without a chance to collude = there technically was a chance he did do it.

I was going to ask fruit snacks if he thought SA committed the first rape too, but I guess I have my answer.
01-16-2016 , 06:24 PM
Can you give a TL;DW?

That guy voice makes my brain shut down.
01-16-2016 , 06:43 PM
There was some crazy guy in the area who tormented his wife, got arrested, released, did a bunch of pervy stuff, made some comments about TH including seeing a missing persons poster for her and saying she would not be found alive, the wife turned some supposedly adult women's underwear she found hidden in her attic to the police, but they supposedly wanted her to say her husband was a pedo. Oh, and there were some bones in there somewhere, but the wife threw them away - I reckon having no thought that they might be human. The dogs had gotten them.
01-16-2016 , 06:51 PM
I stopped watching too but I think he was talking about this:

Quote:
Well in the early days of this sub reddit, aka saturday. There was a women on here nicknamed Primak. She had posted that at the time of the murder her then husband ( they lived very close to the Avery Yard) was acting very weird so she moved to another property even closer to the Avery Salvage Yard to get away from him. She was in the process of moving her stuff over the day of and the day after Halbach disappeared but when she came to the new house her husband was already there and he refused to let her in her house, which is strange. So she contacted police after he became violent and they came ( this is the same sheriffs department) and arrested him. So later on that week after she was all moved in, she found a bunch of strange stuff on the property which was like a hobby farm so it had lots of barns and out building, she found womens underwear and clothing, a bloody hammer and some blood in the garage and a burn pit. She contacted the police who sent out an investigator who said the underwear was to small to be a womens and thought the husband might have been involved in pedophilia. The Husband was locked up for abuse and sent to a mental institution but the police did not follow up the other leads and told the women that they had all ready gotten the guy that kill halbach. After pressing farther the person found the community turn against her and the detective that did come out to investigate now denied ever going out. She had to leave the community. Her husband was deported to German as he was only in the country because he was married to her.
Now there are some holes in the story and once again its only backed up by PrimaK and a few other who have talked to her on the phone and in person. ( Which is where amp lee comes in). So take what you will from it. We do know the German Man was a real person, I saw his arrest records of that night and he is now living in Thailand.
What I find so strange is that they were here for the first two or three day on this subreddit and now their posts have disappeared. Now where that was because as soon as they saw how popular it was becoming they left to avoid media attention or they could have been fakes, or at least not telling everything.
Three other notes
The reason the women left the German man in the first place was because he was mentally unstable and stealing her underwear and cutting up her clothes.
The Property does exist and the strange thing is the barns where she found the evidence in 2005 burned down around 2011.
Finally she made these claims well before the documentary came out or was even know about and they can be found on website called convolutedbrian
01-16-2016 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 Making a Murderer
way to take torched literally.
I was up all night and a bit loopy. I read "bleach, gas and paint thinner" as somehow involving a blow torch I think... Doesn't really change my opinion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 Making a Murderer
the confession is so obviously forced.
Not forced. Especially when he starts spitting of actual truths and doesn't have to pause and think for 10 seconds before each word. There is a point where he is talking about how after he cut her throat he could tell she was trying to slow her breathing because it hurt when she was breathing hard. Telling how far into her neck he cut, how deep the stab wound to the stomach was etc. He gives all these details but when asked if he shot her he quickly says no. They use their same tactics but he rather forcefully denies even touching the gun. "I never touched the gun."

Then you can see his guilt/shame when his mom comes into the room after they tell him he's going to jail. I don't think it's until days later over phone calls when he starts denying being part of the murder, likely to smooth over the tension with his mom who's rightfully going out of her mind.

I wonder how many of you actually watched significant portions of these tapes. When he's in the middle of a lie and is asked a question he just sits there like a ****** until the cop prompts him with options. When he's telling the truth (when it gets gruesome and scary) he talks at a normal pace and has certainty in his voice.
01-16-2016 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
I was going to ask fruit snacks if he thought SA committed the first rape too, but I guess I have my answer.
I already said I didn't. I think the guy was a misfit and made the mistake of threatening someone close to the cops in a small town.
01-16-2016 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
I was up all night and a bit loopy. I read "bleach, gas and paint thinner" as somehow involving a blow torch I think... Doesn't really change my opinion though.



Not forced. Especially when he starts spitting of actual truths and doesn't have to pause and think for 10 seconds before each word. There is a point where he is talking about how after he cut her throat he could tell she was trying to slow her breathing because it hurt when she was breathing hard. Telling how far into her neck he cut, how deep the stab wound to the stomach was etc. He gives all these details but when asked if he shot her he quickly says no. They use their same tactics but he rather forcefully denies even touching the gun. "I never touched the gun."

Then you can see his guilt/shame when his mom comes into the room after they tell him he's going to jail. I don't think it's until days later over phone calls when he starts denying being part of the murder, likely to smooth over the tension with his mom who's rightfully going out of her mind.

I wonder how many of you actually watched significant portions of these tapes. When he's in the middle of a lie and is asked a question he just sits there like a ****** until the cop prompts him with options. When he's telling the truth (when it gets gruesome and scary) he talks at a normal pace and has certainty in his voice.
actual truth? yet no evidence of what he said actually happening when if it did there would be more dna splattered everywhere than at a whorehouse
01-16-2016 , 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 Making a Murderer
if it did there would be more dna splattered everywhere than at a whorehouse
Why do people keep saying this with absolute certainty? Is it really 100% impossible to stab someone laying on top of sheets, maybe layers of cardboard, possibly the cabinet they burned, clean up with bleach, gasoline, & paint thinner and leave a small enough amount of blood that forensics couldn't collect it?

SA had planned this at least a few days in advance according to brendan (not to mention over a decade in prison in close contact with actual murderers). Do you think he was just going to stab her and let her bleed out evidence all over his garage? This is a guy who got let out of jail due to dna evidence. You don't have to be dexter to lay down some plastic sheets and then throw them in the fire. Then on top of that they went over the area with bleach and other cleaning supplies. They had days to do this.

And they didn't pull off the perfect crime. They didn't get rid of the car fast enough for whatever reasons, steve's cut finger got blood on the inside of the car, they failed to fully get rid of bones with DNA. The kid didn't keep his mouth shut, leading to him being interrogated again and pushed to tell the truth by expert interrogators. Many massive blunders were made, as one would expect from a bunch of low intelligence individuals trying to cover up a murder.
01-16-2016 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
When he's in the middle of a lie and is asked a question he just sits there like a ****** until the cop prompts him with options.
Quote:
until the cop prompts him with options
LOL.

It's more like when they tell him that they already know what happened and to be honest, he sits there like a ****** until they prompt him with options.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-16-2016 at 09:52 PM.
01-16-2016 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
LOL.

It's more like when they tell him that they already know what happened and to be honest, he sits there like a ****** until they prompt him with options.
You should really revist this if you're interested in the truth. In a few of the interrogations when they say something like "we already know you stabbed her, tell us about it" it's because he literally told them about stabbing her in a previous interview but then clammed up on details. Maybe later I'll track down the part where he talks about how deep he cut her throat and how she was breathing hard from screaming etc. It's ****ed up and he's not being prompted in any capacity and is speaking relatively fast paced.
01-16-2016 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
Why do people keep saying this with absolute certainty? Is it really 100% impossible to stab someone laying on top of sheets, maybe layers of cardboard, possibly the cabinet they burned, clean up with bleach, gasoline, & paint thinner and leave a small enough amount of blood that forensics couldn't collect it?

SA had planned this at least a few days in advance according to brendan (not to mention over a decade in prison in close contact with actual murderers). Do you think he was just going to stab her and let her bleed out evidence all over his garage? This is a guy who got let out of jail due to dna evidence. You don't have to be dexter to lay down some plastic sheets and then throw them in the fire. Then on top of that they went over the area with bleach and other cleaning supplies. They had days to do this.

And they didn't pull off the perfect crime. They didn't get rid of the car fast enough for whatever reasons, steve's cut finger got blood on the inside of the car, they failed to fully get rid of bones with DNA. The kid didn't keep his mouth shut, leading to him being interrogated again and pushed to tell the truth by expert interrogators. Many massive blunders were made, as one would expect from a bunch of low intelligence individuals trying to cover up a murder.
Apparently you have to be Dexter to use a carshredder and a smelter but not to get rid of any DNA-evidence. Maybe he called Dexter, but he had to leave early to chop some wood.

Anyways you are just a troll and not worth to be considered anymore.

Still, even though I think Jodi is a drunk, looking at some of her statements and those of Beerntsen(He apparently asked her for a house, which doesn't necesseraly mean much but what stuck to me was this in combination with Jodis statement of "Bitches owe me"), I'm a bit more convinced he did it, like 60/40 now.

It's kinda upsetting that there is the high possibility that we'll never find out if he is innocent and if so who actually did it.
01-16-2016 , 10:10 PM
One of my favorite parts was when the lawyer was pretty smugly asking brendan which book he could have possibly gotten all of the details from, thinking he was going to make him look even dumber, and brendan just looks at him and says "kiss the girls"

Haven't read that book in awhile, so no idea if it was true, just loved how he answered
01-16-2016 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
You should really revist this if you're interested in the truth. In a few of the interrogations when they say something like "we already know you stabbed her, tell us about it" it's because he literally told them about stabbing her in a previous interview but then clammed up on details. Maybe later I'll track down the part where he talks about how deep he cut her throat and how she was breathing hard from screaming etc. It's ****ed up and he's not being prompted in any capacity and is speaking relatively fast paced.
Honestly, I'm looking for that part now and can't find it. Not saying it's not there...I just genuinely can't seem to find it.

Quote:
You should really revist this if you're interested in the truth.
QFT:



SA: "Come over to my house and help me get rid of a body"
BD: "Yeah, Okay."
BD walks over to the garage where SA is working on the Monte, er wait no, the gray "Suzuki" is there so BD walks over to it.
SA: "Wait, wait did you see that?"
BD: "Ya."
SA: "That is a body. That is Teresa Halbach, a girl you've never heard of in your life, but I'm going to tell you her name anyways. I forgot that I already told you to help me move a body, but now that I seen you seen it, I'm going to tell you what her name was n that, k?"
BD: "Ya."
SA: "And if you tell anyone, I'm going to stab you a little bit okay?"
BD: "Ya."

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-16-2016 at 10:31 PM.
01-16-2016 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Why do people keep saying this with absolute certainty? Is it really 100% impossible to stab someone laying on top of sheets, maybe layers of cardboard, possibly the cabinet they burned, clean up with bleach, gasoline, & paint thinner and leave a small enough amount of blood that forensics couldn't collect it?
While no one can actually be 100% certain about anything, it is more than reasonable to doubt that what is described here would not leave a single trace. You're forgetting that he also shot her 11 times, er 5 times, or at least twice in the head. One of the bullets from that head shot allegedly passed through her air, scalp, skull, brain...then skull scalp/skin and went clean through. So entry AND exit wound. IMO this much more clearly shows that this did not happen the way BD confesses and the state alleges because there is no way in hell that this garage:



which was searched 6 times, yielded nothing but a Lenk special.

I can say with near 100% certainty that there is no way every single bit of blood or other spatter from alleged multiple gunshot wounds would have been able to be removed from this "crime" scene.

And if that's not enough for you: It is also extremely reasonable to doubt that he could clean up ONLY her flesh, blood, and dna evidence while leaving his own blood AND DNA, other Avery's DNA and deer blood.

Last edited by lostinthesaus; 01-16-2016 at 10:50 PM.
01-16-2016 , 10:51 PM
Considering how messy SA house was, the fact that he could kill someone inside it and leave it WITHOUT one trace of blood or TA DNA on top of leaving a bullet inside the house seems ******edly improbable.
01-16-2016 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit snacks Making a Murderer
na m8, if you watch the interrogation from the POV that he's raped and assisted in the murder but is trying to cover his own ass but slowly breaks down and tells the truth, you can see right through brendan.

All those pauses and delays and stuttering is when the tiny wheels in his brain are turning as fast as they can to come up with consistent lies but he's just too damn stupid. It isn't just him consistently saying yes and being led in one direction or another. They go over and over the events of the night but in a weird order (probably some technique) and his account converges to him raping and assisting in the murder of the girl. The progression is logical too. At first he says he just helped clean blood, then he came into garage and saw the body already dead in the back of the truck, then he saw steve move the body from bedroom to garage, then he helped move the body, then he raped, then he stabbed etc.



Come on, what is he a ****ing hypnotist? I'd 100% buy the false confession line if brendan was literally ******ed but he isn't. The doc did a very good job of picking clips to make it seem that way, but he's a normal human. It's so much more likely that the cops just tricked a dumb kid into confessing than he was hypnotized by a prosecutor. Oh yea, and the cousin also shared the same delusion or temporary insanity / impulsive lying whatever.

I always roll my eyes when people talk about the relief of confessing and not carrying guilt or whatever. It seems like something for simple minded people who can't manage their thoughts but there are a lot of people like this. Brendan imo is one of them. He committed a rape/murder without putting much thought into it. He said something in a confession like it took him 2 weeks to wonder if he had 'done the right thing or not'. And he thought he was confessing with no consequences because the cops were on his side lol. So much more likely than being hypnotized.
Serious question: do you believe that non "literally ******ed" people confess to crimes they didn't commit? Like just your average to below average IQ crowd?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki Making a Murderer
This thread is basically reinforcing to me how ****ed you are in America if you're a redneck with a rap sheet full misdemeanors, and you're taken in on a felony charge. Man best of luck to you getting a fair trial.
Try being black.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337 Making a Murderer
No I'm not from the UK, I'm German-Iranian, born in Germany and living there my whole life. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to criticize any country.
Speaking only for me, I'm sick of smug euros going on rants about how the US sucks. It's more annoying in person than on the internet though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prana Making a Murderer
They got him to confess to things that could not have transpired the way he says. There was no DNA anywhere that he described the murder taking place. None. I don't know how that makes it damn fine police work but ok.
Yeah, he 'confessed' to raping and repeatedly stabbing her in the bedroom. But we know beyond any reasonable doubt that that DIDNT happen. I'd love to know how this fits in with the theory that he wheels were turning and hr was covering his ass. Why would his most brutal and dramatic confessions be things that didn't happen?
01-16-2016 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinthesaus Making a Murderer
SA: "That is a body. That is Teresa Halbach, a girl you've never heard of in your life, but I'm going to tell you her name anyways. I forgot that I already told you to help me move a body, but now that I seen you seen it, I'm going to tell you what her name was n that, k?"
Yes, Brendan is a really bad liar because he's so dumb. SA told him about planning to rape and murder TH days before the incident. What really happened is he went over and raped her because he wanted to know what sex felt like (his unprompted words in the confession).

It's like a kid stole some cookies from a cookie jar.

"Hey, did you take those cookies from the cookie jar?"

"naaa" (looks around nervously and fidgets)

"Well what were you doing 10 minutes ago?"

"uhhhh... I don't know... can't remember"

"were you outside playing with John?"

"yeeaaayyy" (long drawn out response after pause)

"But John is over at Tommys, so you weren't with John!"

"yeeeaayyy"

"so did you take the cookies from the jar? be honest, you won't get in trouble. I just need to know."

"yeeaayyyy"

"Tell me more about how you got up to the high shelves and what the cookie was like"

Child continues to list off unprompted details about the cookies and how he got them from the high shelf.

2p2 Detective: This childs story is inconsistent and proof he was coerced into admitting guilt!! Why are there so many inconsistencies? Was he with John or not?
01-16-2016 , 11:07 PM
that's really how you interpreted that?

re: post 1745

      
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