She’s awesome. I’m fact, I’d prefer the entire show just be her people and the experts.

You'll probably want to block Fraley, corpus, and poor if you don't want spoilers.

She represented serial killer Larry Eyler responsible for the torture sex murders of 21 young men & teenage boys.

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicag...ent?oid=880169

Murder is not entertainment, truly can't emphasise that enough.

Nothing to spoil both murderers are where they belong which is common knowledge & neither have a chance of getting unleashed upon society again any time soon either so it's all good.

Innocent Brendan does indeed sound totally mentally deficient though especially when boasting about all the fan mail he's getting & reading and answering apparently with no help from anyone. Again it's almost like he's mentally deficient only when it suits his fan club...

What a monster! Zellner tried to keep a serial killer in prison, and convict another one.

With that confession [from Larry Eyler], Zellner worked a deal with the Vermillion County prosecutor. Eyler pleaded guilty and was given a 60-year sentence. In return, he agreed to testify against Dr. Little.

If Zellner cured cancer you people would still ***** and moan about it.

Yeah so she still represents guilty mfrs & lies re "exonerations" for the likes of Ferguson & Casciaro when this is simply untrue as a vacated conviction is not an exoneration.

No if she cured cancer I'd be very impressed. Her victim denigration & filing on the anniversary of Ms Halbach's murder shows what an odious pos she is & her brain fingerprinting pseudo science shows how pathetic she is. Other than that I have zero interest in her. She's a shyster & a charlatan plain & simple, except for murderer groupies like you who dig murderers & rapists.

In the meantime Cuddles & his creepy-ass nephew still doin' hard time

I'm not entertained by murder, I'm entertained by a documentary that I'm watching on Netflix focused around an interesting case and the people involved in that case.

If I watch a documentary on the assassination of JFK and events proceeding it am I wrong to find it entertaining just because JFK was murdered in it? It was a major event and time period in US history.

You are fairly simple minded if you cannot see the difference. It's possible to find entertainment/fascination in the events surrounding this particular case and documented legal events yet still be sympathetic to any victim of wrong doing in this case or other similar undocumented cases.

Why? Why are you entertained by a lying innocence fraud documentary advocating for a murderer & very probable rapist, while casting sleazy intimations on the victim's own brother, himself a victim?

So do you mean interested as opposed to entertained?

No, simple minded is giving more gravitas to dumb conspiracies for which no evidence exists, over the overwhelming evidence against Avery which is what several morons/murderer groupies in this thread are doing. Rather than go by the primary sources like.

Interest sure, fascination, yeah why not, entertainment, not so much no. Do you see the actual difference between the three? Or not?

I'm sorry for that, wasn't thinking.


I gave up on this season out of boredom after three episodes, but it all just seemed like a Zellner puff piece, letting her drone on and on without calling her out on any of her bull****.

IMO, that's the only reason she took the case in the first place and has remained on it - the publicity. Her work on behalf of Avery - coming up with pseudo-scientific reenactments and unsubstantiated claims to bolster some conspiracy theories - has always seemed designed for the television rather than an actual courtroom.

I haven't watched, but I guarantee at the end she'll blame her failure on a corrupt justice system a la the heroes of Season 1, Buting and Strang.


Regarding Steven and the bags of cum he sends to his fans, I've already agreed with you that we can't really blame Avery, but you have to admit the whole situation is still pretty hilarious. It's funny how they portrayed Sandy breaking up with him due to "religious reasons", when it's pretty obvious he dumped his original old nutter of a groupie like a sack of potatoes when he became a Mansonesque rock-star (Charles, that is) after Making a Murderer.

The conspiracy theories portrayed in this documentary are what sells the interest to the viewer. If those didn't exist it would have never been made into a documentary or gotten the popularity that it has had in the media.

Do I believe in the conspiracy theories? It doesn't matter. While I may have personal opinions I can still watch this documentary and find interest in the events and characters involved as they are portrayed by the filmmakers without getting overly consumed with the truth or final outcome; which side is right or wrong, who is the real killer? etc. Maybe you are more closely attached to this case or it effects your life or people around you on a more personal level.

I'm just a guy in the stands sitting with his popcorn watching the game play out. I'm sorry if my stance on this issue comes off as immoral to you. I do have remorse for any victim in this case or other similar cases and I hope justice prevails.

Yeah because "Cops catch dude who's guilty AF" doesn't sell like "innocent triumphs against all odds", hence the reason it's innocence fraud. It lies to the viewer via dodgy editing & omits crucial evidence to peddle their conspiraloon bs. So why be "entertained" by murderer advocacy?

Nah just calling bs like I see it & evidently unlike you I prioritize the truth over entertainment & regard such lying advocacy as quite frankly immoral.Tf they get off casting intimations on the victim's family, for example?

Murder isn't a game any more than it's entertainment. You think the Halbach family regard it as a game? be played out? For you to munch popcorn to whilst being entertained? Honest question.

MAM definitely comes across as immoral to me, you as merely misguided with a seriously weird taste in women.
Justice did prevail hence both rotting away in prison.

It's not a problem about the spoiler. I assumed nothing much changed in the past few years or this thread would have popped to the top alot more often.

I'm almost done with Season 2 now. It really does drag on and in my opinion they could have shrunk the entire season into probably six episodes or less total. It almost felt unedited at times with many of the scenes with characters just driving in their cars to their destinations with limited dialogue and also so many of the Avery family scenes. While in the first season the filmmakers really tried to highlight poor Steven Avery, this second season really goes out of it's way to move that light onto Avery's poor poor family.

Stop the presses. Somebody get Investigation Discovery on the phone and tell them to shut down the network!

Does Discovery investigation shill for murderers? If so then yeah maybe they should shut down.

I'm not going to cloud this thread up after this post for awhile as I've already posted too much over the past few pages as a less informed viewer on this matter but will respond to what you mentioned above.

You are passionate that the documentary is a biased view on this subject and believe other evidence to support your views that the guilty party is infact guilty and true justice was served for Teresa Halbach's murder. I have no problem with that and have always been interested in the opinions posters such as you, PoorSkillz, Fraley, etc who I know have studied this case much more in depth outside of the documentary.

As I said while I have my own personal opinions my interest in this case is watching people with a more dedicated understanding than me to the case argue their sides. Whether that be here on the Internet or on the Netflix documentary "making a murderer. I believe Zellner and Dassey's lawyers believe that their clients are innocent or at the very least Dassey's lawyers definitely believe that their client was coerced to his confession. This is what I meant by sitting on the sidelines watching the game. If you believe that Zellner and Dassey's lawyers have ulterior motives and truly don't believe in the innocence of their clients then I can see how this could rub you the wrong way. I'm just not as invested into one side as you are in this case.

As someone who's followed the case since the first season, I was genuinely expecting only 2-3 new episodes (like I believe Netflix did with The Staircase), and for it to be mostly focused on Brendan (where newsworthy things actually happened and the lawyers were actually professional and not a joke).

Its insane how much you seem to "care" @PoorSkillz

Even changing your 2+2 location to "Not in prison for life!". Why the **** is this so personal for you?

Cant you even see WHY people are questioning this? Especially after this season with all the forensics that does NOT add up to what Ken said during trial?

Some if not the best analysts in the world in there respeectice fields are saying this makes no sense. Are you saying that they are not pros in there fields and that there words should not be entertained and if so why? Why are these experts wrong?

I'm not invested in the actual case as again both are in prison & justice was served. It's the shilling & propagation of a false narrative that I have issue with. Re Zellner, I strongly believe she thinks Avery's guilty & is simply milking it. Ditto Buting & Strang. Dassey's lawyers I have no idea on whether they believe Dassey is innocent/coerced or not. That said & to echo Skillz, I consider his lawyers far more professional & ethical than Avery's.

Irrelevant wrt the guilt of both murderers.

Who said it's personal for him or anyone & again irrelevant & essentially deflective bs.

They dig netflix docos & swallow whatever's flung their way hook line & sinker, that's why.

Sez who? Zellz & her wonder scientists paid to say whatever she tells them to with their brain fingerprinting bollocks & tossing dummies into boots of jeeps bs? They aren't getting retried on Netflix nor have they given any valid reasons to get an actual fuhreelz retrial anyway, so forensics shmensics.

There. Fixed.

Their words should not be entertained, due to their being defence shills paid to advocate.

Why are the state's experts wrong? It's not cuz Netflix said so, by any chance, is it?

You'll have to take corpus with a pinch of salt - other than being all over every murder thread he is also a huge fan of slasher flicks and torture porn - you could call him a 'murder groupie'.



Obviously, he's being sarcastic about his not being entertained contemplating murder. He has devoted hundreds, if not thousands, of hours watching the recreation of brutal crimes committed against nubile young women.

LOL! Hit the nail on the head.

The vast majority of documentaries and dramas about crime are about catching the bad guy - often with the 'hero' being a cop or a detective and the 'villain' being the person they accuse.

I mean, let’s be honest. The “experts” defending Avery are specifically hired to find anamolies. If you’ve ever seen the staircase you’d kinda see how this process goes down. The attorneys literally sit down the the forensic experts and ask “how can we spin this”.

The fact remains that the most parsimonious explanation with the available evidence is that Avery murderer her. There is not one alternative plausible theory that has been presented by anyone else.

Feel free to remove yourself from my balls. Smacc, lost and proudfoots are equally as likely to give spoilers as the “guilters” itt.

First off, try to calm down with the ad hominem arguments and take the "Not in prison for life!" tag as a harmless joke.


Of course I can see why people are questioning this, but having researched outside the show, I just realize they've been duped.

I watched all of Season 1 and initially believed the police were corrupt in this case too.


I've read Zellner's actual motions, and many of the things she claimed Ken said, he did not even actually say. In reality, she just came up with a bunch of strawmen, and then came up with a bunch of laughably bad experiments that aren't scientifically valid to take down those strawmen (e.g. claiming Kratz said the bullet went through her skull even though he never actually said that, finding no bone fragments in the bullet, then concluding Kratz was lying to the jury).


I'm not sure where you heard they're the "best analysts in the world" - was it from Kathleen Zellner, the person paying these experts? Do you honestly believe this brain fingerprinting isn't a crock of ****? I'm not saying their words should not be entertained or even that they're wrong, but Zellner often embellished what was actually said in their affidavits to bolster her arguments.

In reality the experts' sworn affidavits were entertained and even taken by face value by the judge, who IMO correctly ruled they still did not merit an exoneration/retrial/hearing/etc.

A)I can take or leave slashers & consider them one of the weaker sub genres of horror actually, fwiw .

B) "Torture porn" wrt horror doesn't actually exist & was a term coined by critic David Edelstein to describe horror films he personally didn't like & also the film The Passion of the Christ. People like you probably regard the likes of Airplane!(1979) as "comedy porn", lazy & stupid as you are.

C) Nobody cares about your apparent obsession with me any more than they care about your obsession with real murderers rapists and mutilators,or my liking for fictitious horror films.

D)I'm proud to be a horror fan & much prefer it than getting off on real murderous sex crimes against women like you clearly do, very probable misogynist that you are, you creepy murderer groupie weirdo.

E) You STILL haven't made a case for innocence for Cuddly Steve & his tubby rapist nephew or refuted the evidence...as usual.

F) You're still a murderer groupie creep. (See what I mean about being able to go all the way to Z here btw, so impressive is your list of flaws? )

Stop shilling for murderers you creepy and quite disgusting little man