haha how'd that canucks game turn out for you?

Great show!

Which is why I'm able to go buy a marijuana joint at the local newsstand before going to play at Harrah's Midtown Manhattan every day.

As I said in the interview, I'm not a politics expert but I've followed the political developments related to online poker in the US fairly closely. I believe we don't have the votes and won't be able to get the votes any time in the near future. Casinos throwing money at politicians may advance the cause, but there's a reason we don't have casinos in most major cities in the United States.

I am, however, a criminal law expert and would be happy to debate anyone who thinks that there are strong legal defenses to the charges in the indictment. There aren't.

I'm definitely not a fan of the US Attorney's Office for the SDNY (my primary reasons why will be outlined in a magazine article about one of my former cases that is coming out in the near future) and am probably biased in favor of finding flaws in cases that they bring. I'm not being negative because I'm negative, I'm being so because that's the reality of the case.

my point is it doesnt matter how illegal it is. If people want it and will pay money for it someone will supply it, thats it.

guess i should have listened to the show,

You can't supply online poker in the US without access to the US banking system. And this indictment has demonstrated how easy it is for the Feds to cut off that access.

Todd has received a lot of criticism here but his interview was excellent. He's telling it like it is.

Don't panic though. Using your analogy of the Titanic, the good news is that it was located 73 years later.

With respect to Professor Rose's contention that this is not bank fraud, here's a recent blog post discussing a federal appellate case (from a different circuit, so it's not binding) which is on point and holds that similar conduct does constitute bank fraud:

http://craakker.blogspot.com/2011/04...ontent=Twitter

And the statutory language of the bank fraud statute, 18 USC 1344, is easily met in the poker case:

All that is required by statute is a scheme to obtain property under the custody and control of a financial institution by means of fraudulent representations. Harm to the bank is not an element.

Wow , back from work and a 4 hours show is waiting for me.

you guys dont disapoint

I heard, during the Pokerati guy interview, someone (Pokerati?) say "this changes everything. After today nothing in the iPoker world will be the same" (or some such).

Reminds you of 9/11 eh? Black Friday is iPoker's 9/11 so, carrying this analogy further, I guess that makes SDNY iPoker's Al Queda. PokerStars and Full Tilt are the twin towers and the people jumping from the burning building are our in flight withdrawals that Al Qaeda, uh, I mean SDNY, has seized.

My 1st Thought was what is he talking about, DC just passed legislation .

OTOH, Big Brother has now saved you from losing 50 BIs and quitting your job.

I agree with your comments and appreciated your segment on the Pokercast. If it is true that one senator got the UIGEA attached to a spending bill and another senator blocked progress on Rep. Frank's proposed legislation, it would indeed seem very unlikely to see any legal advancement of online poker in the USA.

Adam mentioned he felt the in-house legal teams at Stars/FTP must have 'signed off' on the way the business was operated. I'm sure that happened in broad terms, but

I doubt too many people knew the banks were being told to code the payments 'TheGolfStore.com'. And I also imagine that anyone who did know that could possibly believe they were not doing something illegal.

But sometimes, bending the rules is +EV, sometimes breaking the rules is ++EV. You're getting 1,000,000:1 and you're chance of getting caught is 75/25, so you play. You tell yourself you're not hurting anyone, and that if you don't do it, someone else will, so why should you not make a ****pile of money?

And when the DOJ calls and your cards are face up, and you see you've gotten in bad, what can you do?

Just hope you suck out, right?

What does Mike Sexton say on the WPT telecast?, "that all-in play works every time, but once."

Or something like that (apologies Mike if I fractured it)

FWIH bodog uses canadian or intl banks which don't comply w uigea verification correct?
If you deposit or cash out on bodog it's not my US bank dealing w another US bank where they have to verify whether the funds are going to or coming from "illegal" gaming sites. US bank is sending or depositing via an international transaction. US bank may put an extended hold on the money coming in from bodog or take extra steps of wanting to verify w acct holder that the intl deposit going to bodog is a valid trxn by account holder. Are US banks hamstrung when trying to do uigea required verification when dealing with non US banks? The US banks initially didn't even want to verify the types of trxn and requested and received a delay in implementing that govt requirement correct? why should intl banks do that if they don't have to and they don't want to. Why go the flower shop deceptive route if FTP/PS could've just used intl banks like what I've heard about bodog.
Maybe I'll listen to the podcast now and find this issue was already discussed. I usually listen while driving, but a 4 hr episode may have to be started off computer.

Bodog certainly used to use payment processors in the US. I don't know if that changed after some seizures.

And regardless of whether Stars and Tilt knew about the specific details alleged in the bank fraud count, it's impossible to process payments within the US without committing bank fraud.

Listened to the whole show and I think you did an outstanding job. Thank you very much.

Would bodog be afoul of the uigea when using international banks for what international banks may consider legit trxn within their own countries? I don't think so. If so, how can DOJ apply uigea to intl banking trxn? I don't think they can. Intranational trxn only right.

Is an international trxn (trxn between US bank and non US bank) = to processing payments wholly within the US and therefore bank fraud? What else is there besides the uigea that controls situation here like more specific bank fraud laws?

Think I have probably circled around the issue enuff, shout out to Professor Rose.

I never thought id say this but a sklansky min would be good to hear, that random bastard with his rather odd topics might be able make people forget bout all the crap going on

New here to 2+2, but just got a "My News" updates on PokerStars, and they(US DOJ) are letting PokerStars cash out to their US players. The funds are held in different accounts than that of PokerStars assets. Just a byte of info, but may ease some of our friends to the south(yeah, I'm from Canada, and I'm doing this of my own free will, see how nice we are?...lol)

Great show guys.

I am sure this is in another thread - but being challenged by trying to track them all - I just received this from PokerStars support:


Dear PokerStars player,

We were very pleased to receive the news today that allows US players to cash out their real money balances.

In response to this update, the Cashout Option in the PokerStars Cashier will be temporarily closed, to allow us to prepare the technical solutions and formulate the plan and processes required to allow you to cash out your balance.

In the interim, any pending cashouts have been returned to your account in order to ensure players have the opportunity to cash out orderly. Please be assured, US player balances are safe. We will notify all US players as soon as the cashier is available again.

Providing you with the facility to cash out is our top priority right now, and hopefully all US players will be able to cash out via the PokerStars Cashier in the near future.

We apologize for the temporary delay, and sincerely appreciate your patience and cooperation, as we continue working towards providing you with a solution to cash out.

Regards,

PokerStars Support

Laughed at Bunner's comment at 3:17:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM6xV...eature=related

Then I laughed at the KL twitter comment again.

Thanks guys.

Wow, that was a very long podcast... but I was able to comprehend it all, very good guys. Thank you for going as deep as you did into the issues for us US players, very, very, very much appreciated.

As for future shows, i would hate to have you spend so much time on us here in the US, but at the same time your podcast gives me more volume of information than i can round up while not working and browsing the internet. Your show is a great resource for a variety of items and is a great way to get it anywhere in the world, so brief updates or notes of interest in the US poker players will be highly appreciated.

Great job, keep up the awesome job.

Thanks Mike and Adam,
I have listened to every 2p2 pokercast - including the Rounders Radio Show - to date. This week's show was informative and cathartic. For a US player with a job and a family that take up 99% of my time, these issues are impossible to follow in the 2+2 discussions (thanks Kevmath for the best forum summaries). You did a great service to your listeners with a great set of guests.

Adam, hope it works out for you. You are gracious to worry about others when this is clearly going to effect your work and immediate earnings.

Going forward, I do hope the pokercast has enough support to keep going. As a US player, it would be great to hear how the games are in the live environment. Do you think this move will develop another set of "pseudo legal" sites in the market for US players? Remember that the UIGEA basically created FTP and PS "giants" once party and 888 were out of the US market.

Your show about the poker convention made me try Zynga poker - a total joke from the poker perspective (terrible software, no value on the actual chips below certain levels since you get them for free), but an interesting social media tool.

Thanks!

This is great news -- I saw the same just a little while ago.

One bit of doom and gloom that we can put behind us in the near future.

I also have to say that I have been looking forward to The Pokercast all weekend. You all put together a show that really exceeded my expectations by a long way.

I would also hope that the Pokercast will go on without online poker on the big 3 sites in the US (I did reactivate some accounts on a couple of the sites that still operate -- not knowing if I will be able to cash out my winnings -- so no harm in discussing our remaining options.).

So the only topic I haven't heard about yet is what do US players do with T$ or Step Tickets? (I still have an hour left to listen to in case you did mention). If we can't play, WTF can we do with them? Sell T$ on the cheap? Still leave Tickets.

Thanks again gents!