Sorry. I probably worded my point wrong. This rule question was settled a while ago, and you provided the correct answer (Abnormal Ground Conditions).

But, see the bold above. lok2thebrain was clearly suggesting waiving the ruling that you answered. I don't think he was challenging or revisiting the correctness of your answer; rather, he was saying how about just letting him have a free drop anyway. Seemed to me the answer to his suggestion in bold was no, because of rule 1-3 you cant do that either.

Playing one of the top Canadian courses tomorrow, Copper Creek, can't wait. I've only played it once and it was really enjoyable, looking forward to playing it in the freezing cold fall conditions tomorrow! /sarcasm

Yeah, what ArcticKnight said.

I used to work golf course maintenance and they don't always put an emphasis on driving the course every day to properly mark GUR, hazards, etc. (due to laziness, being hung over/stoned)

An entire bunker could be flooded to the edges and still it would just be there without being marked as GUR.

If that happened in a tournament that's one thing.

But if you're out with a buddy and come across that situation, and your buddy tries to make you take a penalty stroke, it's time to give him a swift kick in the nuts.

Which is all fine.

But the post I answered was prefaced with:

"Golf rules question:"

And so I answered it based on golf rules.

If it had been "what should my buddy have done/said" I might've answered it differently. But it wasn't.

Sorry I should have prefaced it by saying we were playing a $500 match.

Then I fully support him insisting on this being done by the rules even if I get yelled at for being a nit.

What is going on here? K2, you keep saying it should be marked GUR but in no cases is that ever the rule. I understand (disagree, but understand) that you'd want to give your friend a break while playing a match, but your reasoning is that the grounds crew didn't mark it that day??? It's a hazard. For someone who makes a point to come in here spitting logic and calling people out on flaws in their thinking, this seems very out of character.

I can understand if you think it should be GUR, but you're wrong in this case. I feel like I'm reading the last few posts all wrong.

I agree. We were both confused on the rule which is why I asked. Luckily the hole in question didn't factor in the outcome.

So I am going to a wedding up in NH next weekend. Only course around is a private course. What are the chances I can call up and they will let me out?

Just show up in a suit and walk in like you belong.

No you're prob right. Someone earlier mentioned it being GUR so I went with that but sounds like that's not the case. My bad!

Miniscule, if that.

Best bet would be to camp out near the maintenance crew or bag room guys and offer them $$ to take you out with them if they're allowed to bring a guest.

On a weekend, probably zero chance.

Weekday, I'd maybe call and see if you can pay a guest fee if they're not busy. Or ask them about the next closest course.

so this scramble didn't use the string this year and we really really really needed it because my team was basically me. We made absolutely no putts including a missed 4 footer, 6 footer (tricky and fast as hell down a hill), and two more of about 10 feet. We played my tee shot on all 10 holes where I put it in bounds. We played my approach (or tee shot on par 3s) on the first 16 holes save one hole where I drove the green and rolled the 60 footer for eagle by after someone else lagged to 5 feet. Ended up shooting even par which is basically unfathomable to me.

Van Courtlandt Club Championship, Finals:

Played the final match over a week ago but went away to Myrtle Beach early the following morning and didn't get a chance to write it up. Will be going by memory so will probably forget some exact distances/clubs, and maybe even some shots entirely.

The guy I was playing was literally a professional golfer, gave up his Am status after college to play some mini tour events and had aspirations of making the PGA Tour. This was throughout his twenties though and he's now in his thirties and turned to teaching and doing a non-golf side gig to earn a living. Missed qualifying for US Open two years ago by 2 shots. I'm about a 4 handicap so this match was farcically lopsided. On to the golf:

Hole 1, Par 4:
Me: Hybrid to left rough, good shape.
Him: Hybrid to middle of fairway.
Him: Wedge short of green in rough, sounded fat to me.
Me: Nice gap wedge to 8 feet.
Him: Chipped it in. Seriously? WTF?
Me: Missed the putt.
Standings: 1 Down

Hole 2, Par 5.
Him: Driver to middle of fairway.
Me: Driver pulled into left trees.
Me: Punch across fairway into right treeline.
Him: Wood down the middle.
Me: Sliced 5 iron around tree to right greenside rough, pretty good recovery.
Him: Safely on green, 20 feet out.
Me: Good chip that hit the hole and trickled about 5 feet past.
Him: Good lag, conceded par.
Me: Solid putt for par.
Standings: 1 Down

Hole 3, par 3 playing about 165.
Him: Middle of green.
Me: 7-iron over the green.
Him: 2 putt par.
Me: Don't remember the specifics but I failed to get up and down. Bogey.
Standings: 2 Down

Hole 4, par 4.
Him: Hybrid into right trees.
Me: Driver hit through fairway, across cart path, onto second fairway in front of green. Longest driver I've ever hit on this hole by 20 yards.
Him: Excellent punch shot he hit like a laser under a tree in front of him that ran into the rough just past the green.
Me: Just a pitch shot, hit a good one to 7 feet.
Him: Solid chip out of the rough to about 4 feet.
Me: Missed another makeable birdie putt. I knew I had to play perfect to even give him something to think about, so missing putts like this was frustrating. Conceded par.
Him: Center cut, par.
Standings: 2 Down

Hole 5, par 4.
Him: Hooked a 3 wood into the woods.
Me: 3 wood to right rough into treeline.
Him (provisional): Blasted a 3 wood up left side, 50 yards short of green.
Me: Had overhanging limbs to deal with and punched it into the right front greenside bunker.
Him: Pitch to 10 feet.
Me: Solid bunker shot to about 12 feet.
Me: Missed, conceded Bogey.
Him: Missed it. I won a hole!
Standings: 1 Down

Hole 6, drivable par 4.
Me: Driver bailed out to the right (OOB left). Short and right of green in rough.
Him: Hybrid into middle of fairway about 40 yards short of green.
Him: Pitch to about 10 feet.
Me: Pitch to about 8 feet.
Him: Miss, conceded par.
Me: Tried to ram it in, blew it about 4 feet past.
Me: Made the comebacker for par. I was pressing too much on my birdie putts. That's 3 missed so far from inside 8 feet, and this one I was fortunate to 2-putt.

Standings: 1 Down

Hole 7, par 3 playing about 195 downhill.
Me: 5-iron caught a bit thin but managed to get to the green anyway. About 30 feet out uphill.
Him: Rough, short and right of the green. A very poor shot for him.
Him: Chip about 12 feet past the hole.
Me: Good lag, conceded par.
Him: Missed it.
Standings: All Square. (fist pump)

Hole 8. We were behind 4 old men and there was an open hole in front of them, so we agreed to skip 8 and come back if necessary.

Hole 9, par 4.
Me: 3-wood up right side, in the rough but fine.
Him: Good drive to left side of fairway.
Me: Horrible shot with an 8-iron from about 150. Must have been a flier. Didn't feel right coming off the club, came out low and bounded 20 yards past the hole up against a tree.
Him: Green, 20 feet.
Me: Limited back swing, really bad lie with no grass under the ball and tree roots around my ball, lots of green to work with. Managed to pick it off clean with a PW, landed it just onto the back fringe and watched it roll out about 60 feet before it settled 4 feet from the cup. One of the best shots I hit all tournament. Even the pro seemed genuinely impressed.
Him: 2 putt par.
Me: Saved the par.
Standings: All Square.

Hole 10, reachable par 5.
Me: Went for a BIG drive and turned it over OOB left. This was just a stupid shot and really deflated me.
Him: Driver up the left side of the fairway.
Me (3rd shot): Driver deep into the fairway.
Him: Pushed it right of green but playable.
Me: IIRC I had something silly like a 7-iron in and hit it to the back of the green, about 50 feet out.
Him: Pitch safely onto green. 12 feet or so.
Me: Knew I had to make it. Gave it a good go but it slid just by the cup. Gave us both a good sweat though. Conceded the hole.
Standings: 1 Down

Hole 11: Par 3
Halved with standard GIR pars.

Hole 12, long par 5.
Him: Driver down the right side of fairway.
Me: Driver down left side of fairway.
Him: Laid up 60 or 70 yards short of green.
Me: had about 280 out, decided to swing as hard as I could with my 3-wood and see what happened. Hit it pretty solid but sliced it a bit, wound up about 30 yards short of the green in the right rough.
Him: Stuck it to 6 feet.
Me: Well executed pitch that landed just short of the pin and released to 5 or 6 feet.
Him: Hard to see who was away, but he agreed to putt first. He made it for birdie.
Me: Missed another one. 0/4 on birdie putts inside 10 feet. Not what I needed against this guy.
Standings: 2 Down

Hole 13, par 3.
He put it in the middle of the green and 2 putt.
I hit the right fringe and had to make a tough 5 foot breaker for par.
Halved with pars.
Standings: 2 Down

Hole 14, par 4.
This is a narrow ~350 yard dogleg right par 4 with a small creek that cuts into the right side of the fairway about 250 yards out from the tee. You have to either lay up short of the creek or try to fly it over with a driver. Anything right is OOB, and there are trees lining the left side.
Him: Terrible tee shot with a hybrid that hit a tree lining the OOB fence right of the hole and bounced back into play. Left him 200 yards out on a short par 4, slightly obstructed by trees. Very lucky to be in bounds.
Me: Decided to rip a fade with my driver and overcooked it OOB into Van Courtlandt Lake. "I've made a huge mistake."
Me: (3rd shot) Frustrated, bombed a driver down the middle easily over the creek with a slight fade. Exactly what I was going for on the first one.
Him: Hybrid cut around a tree and onto the green, a very nice shot.
Me: Pulled a 3/4 SW 20 feet left of the green. Worst swing of the day. The pro, who I was pretty friendly with at this point, was shocked at how bad it was. On one hand I was thinking, "I'm a 4 handicap, there's plenty more bad shots where that came from," and on the other hand I was happy that he thought highly enough of my game to be surprised when I missed a green.
Me: I tried to chip in for bogey but didn't come close. Hole conceded.
Standings: 3 Down. At this point I'm playing poorly, and making poor decisions. Not good.

Hole 15, short par 4.
Him: Mid iron to fairway.
Me: Punch hybrid to right side of fairway.
Him: Middle of green. 20 feet or so.
Me: 115 uphill, had to deal with some trees on the right that were just blocking my direct line to the right pin. Decided to try to cut a GW and got steep on it. Caught it fat and watched it land about 5 yards short of the green into the face of the steep hill that fronts the green.
Me: Severe uphill lie and long rough. Chopped it out to 15 feet.
Him: Lag, conceded par.
Me: Missed it. Bogey.
Standings: 4 Down. Dormie (not dead because we still have hole #8 to play if necessary).

Hole 16, par 4, about 300 yards downhill.
Him: Middle of fairway, 75 yards out.
I have never hit driver on this hole in my life, because it is stupid from an average strokes standpoint. But I was dormie against a par machine in the middle of the fairway and figured it was was my best chance of extending the match with a birdie.
Me: Driver pushed into greenside trees right of green. Bounced off of tree back and to the left, "back...and to the left," into fairway about 25 yards in front of opponent's ball.
Him: Wedge to 15 feet.
Me: Pitch from 50 yards that I caught nicely but just misjudged the distance on. Landed just over the green past the back left pin location with the green sloping severely from back-to-front.
Me: Impossible short side chip. I went for a 60* flop shot and much to my surprise, it came out perfectly. Landed softly on the back fringe with a nice thud and slowly trickled out to 4 feet past the hole.
Him: Solid putt up the hill to about 2 feet past the hole. I mulled it over for about 2 seconds and decided to concede the match.

Final Standings: 4&3

I lose. Got this for my troubles:



May not look like much but I had to play my ass of to get that thing and I'm proud to have earned it.

The guy who runs the tournament was playing with me during my first round match, and knows all the guys I wound up playing prior to the finals. He said he expected me to get my ass kicked in every match. Apparently it was a real Cinderella story.

Thanks for reading. Hopefully they'll have it again next year and I can try my luck again.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't read trip reports and I never read the "What did you shoot" thread.

I read all of your stuff Brock. Nice job man. You deserve to be proud of yourself.

Awesome read.

Brock....way to do work

+1

nice job Brock. And +1 to the seinfeld reference.

Good catch. Interesting that you can drop in the bunker in a spot that offers maximum relief not complete relief. So you could stand in water and hit if you wanted.

pretty cool, brock. nice work

Well done Brocktoon. Nice read as always.

How many players?

Even if it was only two, even par is prettay bad (no offense, sounds like it certainly wasn't your fault) but you seem to already know that.