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12-19-2013 , 05:59 PM
I think I only lost one zvz last night doing that build so it's confirmed expert.

Last edited by goofyballer; 12-19-2013 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Failed at the "not letting enemy spine crawlers finish" part
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12-19-2013 , 06:01 PM
I remember winning 10 ZvZ's in a row by doing a speedling all in. You go 14 gas, 15 pool, 17 hatch or something, don't build any drones after pool finishes, only lings, hide them in base using queens etc, when speed finishes just a move ftw. He cannot have banelings in time unless he went 10 pool baneling.
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12-19-2013 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy
I remember winning 10 ZvZ's in a row by doing a speedling all in. You go 14 gas, 15 pool, 17 hatch or something, don't build any drones after pool finishes, only lings, hide them in base using queens etc, when speed finishes just a move ftw. He cannot have banelings in time unless he went 10 pool baneling.
Nah you can have banelings if you go baneling nest before ling speed. You can also buy time by blocking the ramp to your main with two queens. My friend used to do this build and had similar success, then he tried it on me and failed miserably. The problem is your opponents overlord will reach your natural and see your hatchery timing, so if they're smart (unlikely), they'll start a baneling nest/spine/extra queens on time. The hatchery timing is the biggest giveaway of a 14 gas opening, but I believe you can scout it in time with a 2 zergling scout and see the massive amount of lings in the main base.
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12-19-2013 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I think I only lost one zvz last night doing that build so it's confirmed expert.
In the game that I watched (lol proxy spinecrawler one) you ling'd up to ~6 sets of lings before starting a queen. It's important to get that queen after the first 3 sets so you can get the fast inject to get a mass amount of speedlings right when metabolic boost finishes.

The timing lines up so that you start ling speed, queen pops and you inject, your inject finishes and you get 8 sets of lings bringing you to around 25 supply, then speed finishes as the big group of speedlings are heading towards his base. Then just keep the wind at your back and let the BM boat sail.
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12-19-2013 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Nah you can have banelings if you go baneling nest before ling speed. You can also buy time by blocking the ramp to your main with two queens. My friend used to do this build and had similar success, then he tried it on me and failed miserably. The problem is your opponents overlord will reach your natural and see your hatchery timing, so if they're smart (unlikely), they'll start a baneling nest/spine/extra queens on time. The hatchery timing is the biggest giveaway of a 14 gas opening, but I believe you can scout it in time with a 2 zergling scout and see the massive amount of lings in the main base.
Yeah its a subtle thing, the expansion is only slightly late (and at lower levels very unreliable).
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12-20-2013 , 12:13 AM
I find myself struggling in early game ZvT atm at holding off Terran harassment without having to make lots of units or losing my third. Once I get up on lair tech and I have all my tools available (overseers + OL speed for mines, speed banes, lings, mutas) I'm in pretty good shape, but I've been having a hard time getting to that point unscathed lately.

Had one really weird game today where the T turtled pretty hard on tanks/thors/mines with some bio (seemed like he had 300 supply or something) so there wasn't really much I could do to effectively counter his army composition-wise, and then started trading units into a BC/viking composition. Obviously I need to stop him from getting to that army but I wasn't really sure how to accomplish that when he had splash damage everywhere against all my units.
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12-20-2013 , 12:26 AM
hatch timing is a dead giveaway but isn't something people can recognize below masters i think
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12-20-2013 , 12:55 AM
I can differentiate pool first and hatch first, but I probably wouldn't spot the difference in that build.

Also, just spent two hours playing and chatting with a guy who messaged me because he liked the build I did against him and he wanted to learn about it (ZvZ). He also tried to sell me that this early +1 carapace build (like 5 minute evo chamber early) he was doing was super amazing. I crushed it twice with my own muta/ling and lost once when I was doing my roach/hydra build, but I ****ed up massively and lost half my drones to a runby.

Edit: All my build was is a 2/1 roach/hydra timing lol.
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12-21-2013 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Blizz introduces the 2014 WCS/ladder S1 map pool:

- Frost, Polar Night, Yeonsu stay
- Bel'Shir, Whirlwind, Akilon, Star Station, Derelict Watcher are out. Will be replaced by...

- Alterzim (BOOOOO. DOES ANYONE ON PLANET EARTH LIKE THIS MAP?????)
- Habitation Station (winner of map contest, was in Red Bull, looks pretty cool)
- GSL is making a couple maps, one of them will be added into map pool
- Blizz is working on a "rush map" with close-ish bases (not steppes of war close, but what they're calling "standard distance") and wide open space to promote aggressive play
Maps introduced today, from TL:

Quote:
Current Goals for the 2014 Ladder

We heard your feedback on Alterzim, but we really want to push for map diversity and our data at the highest level of ladder play shows no significant matchup balance concerns. Were going to try Alterzim in the next WCS season, but because the feedback surrounding this map is important too, well be extra careful in making sure the map works well and take extreme measures if a clear problem develops on this map at the pro level. Thanks for your feedback; its great to hear your feelings about Alterzim. Please keep sharing your thoughts with us throughout the next season, and well watch together to see how it turns out.
Translation: Everyone told us this is the worst ****ing map on the planet, like Klontas Mire bad, but we're stubborn so we're sticking with it!

Their "rush map": Daedalus Point



The GSL map: Heavy Rain LE

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12-21-2013 , 04:24 AM
The rush map is pretty lol:



This is how the ramp into the natural looks when the creep from a Zerg's natural is done spreading. There is 0% chance of being able to wall off against hellions or speedlings - this map is gonna be a cheesefest for Zergs to defend against. Protoss can't wall off that massive ramp either but that stopped mattering on or around March 12, 2013.
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12-21-2013 , 04:37 AM
kinda hard to see in pic but does double evo, double spine, double queen, roach warren wall that off?

only 2 tumors to reach the edge?
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12-21-2013 , 05:08 AM
Looks like you need one more building:



You need that 2nd tumor in the bottom right, first tumor (which was planted on very edge) will just barely not reach the bottom.

But yeah you're never ever getting that big of a wall up before an all-in comes knocking, so it's not very useful.
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12-21-2013 , 05:13 AM
I guess one interesting-ish thing that might happen in metagame is:
- Protoss gateway expands every game because LOL FFE on this map
- When expanding, P still cannot wall off with gateways or whatever to keep stuff like heavy ling pressure out
- Openings for Zerg to do early speedling-oriented builds aimed at delaying P's expansion for as long as possible and taking an econ lead behind it?

I guess Z needs to get early roaches every ZvT on this map to not insta-lose to blue flame hellion rush?
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12-21-2013 , 06:25 AM
Great, two out of 3 maps I have blocked stay, and four maps that I really like are out.

****.

And Alterzim sucks. When I first saw it I was like oh, nice this should be good for zerg! Then I played a protoss.
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12-21-2013 , 06:32 AM
My vetoes atm are Bel'Shir/Akilon/Alterzim, I'll give all the new ones a try before figuring out which two to add to Alterzim. Daedalus will definitely be on a short leash.
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12-21-2013 , 08:39 AM
Propably taking out Habitant and Alterzim.
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12-21-2013 , 10:32 AM
Anyone know how to fix sound issues while streaming on twitch? We are getting faster internet, currently 20 down 2 up will be 30 down 5 up, which I think will solve some of our problems but we can't get audio to match with the video.

Tho half the time the stream is frozen cause of bad internet...
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12-21-2013 , 12:19 PM
Any more info on the problem? What streaming software are you using? I'd suggest turning the quality way down since 2mb upload really doesn't cut it for streaming any sort of quality.
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12-21-2013 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Looks like you need one more building:



You need that 2nd tumor in the bottom right, first tumor (which was planted on very edge) will just barely not reach the bottom.

But yeah you're never ever getting that big of a wall up before an all-in comes knocking, so it's not very useful.
guess what, that means terrans have to build like 10 supply depots to wall off against zerg
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12-21-2013 , 01:03 PM
[x] set a 9am alarm for Scarlett vs Naniwa

LET'S DO THIS

www.twitch.tv/totalbiscuit
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12-21-2013 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22
guess what, that means terrans have to build like 10 supply depots to wall off against zerg
or like two widow mines
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12-21-2013 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
or like two widow mines
those got nerfed
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12-21-2013 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski
Any more info on the problem? What streaming software are you using? I'd suggest turning the quality way down since 2mb upload really doesn't cut it for streaming any sort of quality.
OBS. Yeah I know 2 up is trash . Just a week or so from now it'll be 5 at least.

Also there is a 20sec delay from real life to what one sees in the stream. Which is way to high right?

And quality is at 360p.......The internet is rly bad out here for the time being.
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12-21-2013 , 05:02 PM
have you tried ff split? worked flawlessly for me in the past

although i just tested again, with 9 tabs and several programs i got 28d/6u on wifi... which is kinda surprising given how often i think the internet at this house is terrible...
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12-21-2013 , 05:04 PM
FF Split?

Also the you hear the audio from the game capture and then you hear the audio from the game a second later from the mic on the camera.... How to fix?
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