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07-06-2014 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
i just faced a guy in a TvZ (diamond) that did this build...I checked out his match history and apparently he does this in every ZvT. Is this actually a real build?

12 gas
13 pool
queen, speed, keep all three guys in gas
start lair () when queen is finished...this is when my reaper scouted his base. at this point i assumed it was either a swarm host rush or some stupid play with roach burrow movement.
take second gas (???????), build 20 lings, get a roach warren

i assume he has to win a lot of his games (that he wins) here, because his transition was to take a natural and get roach and OL speed.
So what did he attack with? 20 lings? I'm so confused.
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07-06-2014 , 12:33 PM
yeah. i think he killed a bunker, four marines, and an SCV. his attack was so late that i even had three CCs in spite of the fact that i went five rax before my third.
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07-06-2014 , 12:36 PM
it was actually way more effective (lol) than it should have been, because i was so obsessed with scouting him. if i had just done my normal build vs that, i would have had 4 hellions out at that time and it would have done nothing.
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07-06-2014 , 04:07 PM
Obviously when you scout 1 base Zerg, you shouldn't just do a normal build, but it's not difficult to just be safe and way ahead against any of the ******edly awful all ins that Zerg can do in that position.

From TL: Players react to proposed Terran buffs, every single player (including lots of Terrans) gives a thumbs down to the medivac change (a few of the Terrans are like "whatever, I'll take a buff, but this doesn't address the matchup problems that exist at all")
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07-06-2014 , 04:29 PM
i enjoy reading nerchio's responses in his voice
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07-06-2014 , 09:09 PM
I like how most of the Terrans are crying about how bio should scale into the late game better. That's basically like asking for pure gateway comps for Protoss to scale into the late game. They're ****ing T1 units, they are supposed to fall off as the game goes late and comps get more tech-heavy. The trick is to make Terran mech units better vs Protoss so Terran doesn't have to rely on T1 units to fight Protoss deathballs.
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07-06-2014 , 09:13 PM
Agreed. They need a way to transition into skyterran which we see so very rarely and is almost impossible to stop. The amount of time we see a pure skytoss lategame comp vs skyterran lategame comp is like 20x as often. Not sure how, some buffs to siege tanks might help.
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07-06-2014 , 09:15 PM
Are mech units that bad or is it just that immortals are really, really stupid units?
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07-06-2014 , 09:17 PM
build all skyterran units out of reactored star ports
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07-06-2014 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by templar rage
I like how most of the Terrans are crying about how bio should scale into the late game better. That's basically like asking for pure gateway comps for Protoss to scale into the late game. They're ****ing T1 units, they are supposed to fall off as the game goes late and comps get more tech-heavy. The trick is to make Terran mech units better vs Protoss so Terran doesn't have to rely on T1 units to fight Protoss deathballs.
i assume you're referring to the ground mech units because air mech needs little to no help to avoid becoming massively OP vs zerg
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07-06-2014 , 09:57 PM
Yeah, I was mostly thinking about factory units. Raven-based mech is already OP vs Zerg, so that basically can't get buffed.

Tbh, I wouldn't even mind a fusion core upgrade that gave Terrans the techlab/reactor hybrid add-on from the campaign. At least it sounds interesting. Except it would probably end up leading to a bunch of idiot Terrans getting it purely for double marauders somehow and ignoring mech entirely lol.
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07-07-2014 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Are mech units that bad or is it just that immortals are really, really stupid units?
well tanks get two? shot by them and it takes like 13 to kill one immortal? not to mention zealots for so cheap that are way too good vs tanks too. it would take a lot for that to be viable
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07-07-2014 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Are mech units that bad or is it just that immortals are really, really stupid units?
immortals are very stupid units
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07-07-2014 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboneee
not to mention zealots for so cheap that are way too good vs tanks too.
But you have hellbats, which are the same price as zealots and wreck them. Immortals would definitely be a problem, zealots shouldn't be.
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07-07-2014 , 07:38 PM
Aren't zealots with charge great against every other mech unit though
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07-07-2014 , 07:57 PM
Not a fan of these new maps
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07-08-2014 , 03:14 AM
I think I don't like Foxtrot (it's so ****ing bright too, god it looks awful) after one game, Castellena is ok so far after a few but none went late game so I didn't get to see how bad it is when you have to expand to that ugly base nearer the center, Deadwing seems alright (sample: one game where Toss went two base all in and didn't try to be greedy). Haven't played Nimbus.
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07-08-2014 , 02:56 PM
Balance test map incoming:
- widow mine splash radius increase
- thor attack priority changed to use anti-air weapon first
- time warp duration decreased from 30 -> 15

Widow mines OP, first change can die, but the next two I think are very, very good.
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07-08-2014 , 03:03 PM
Yeah, this is the widow mine radius change:

"Splash radius changed from 1.25/1.5/1.75 to 1.5/2/2.5"

So that means...
- full damage area 1.44x as large as before
- mid damage area 2.55x as large as before
- smallest damage area 2.77x as large as before
- total splash area 2.05x as large as before

Widow mines doing damage across over twice as large an area as before? lol Blizzard, just lol.
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07-08-2014 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by templar rage
I like how most of the Terrans are crying about how bio should scale into the late game better. That's basically like asking for pure gateway comps for Protoss to scale into the late game. They're ****ing T1 units, they are supposed to fall off as the game goes late and comps get more tech-heavy. The trick is to make Terran mech units better vs Protoss so Terran doesn't have to rely on T1 units to fight Protoss deathballs.
This is not really possible. It's not just that T has no other viable units against Protoss besides bio, it's that even if those units existed, it would be impossible to transition to them. It's either straight into mech or bio forever with a few accessory tech units. Bio production plus necessary upgrades (at a minimum, stim/combat shield/concussive/+1/+1/reactors/tech labs) costs a fortune.

I think the real problem with bio all game is that it doesn't really evolve much over time. There are upgrade timings, but that's not enough to keep it interesting. All of the early game timings are obviated by nexus cannon. It would be cool to see the beta-era caduceus reactor reintroduced as a three-tier upgrade researched at the tech lab (maybe with the top two levels requiring a fusion core). That would allow terran to tech up the bio ball in a way that makes it competitive lategame without being OP early game.
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07-08-2014 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
This is not really possible. It's not just that T has no other viable units against Protoss besides bio, it's that even if those units existed, it would be impossible to transition to them. It's either straight into mech or bio forever with a few accessory tech units. Bio production plus necessary upgrades (at a minimum, stim/combat shield/concussive/+1/+1/reactors/tech labs) costs a fortune.
Even if it's only a choice between pure bio or pure mech, that's still infinitely better than the current situation because there is no choice at all right now.

It's not bio that needs more options, it's the Terran race as a whole.
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07-08-2014 , 08:40 PM
I was thinking - you know how people always say that because of the micro demands, Terran has the highest skill cap?

So, at what point is that kind of race "balanced" against races that apparently do not have skill caps as high?

Like, people complain that GSL doesn't have enough Terrans remaining, not enough Terran champions not named Taeja, etc. But if Terran has the highest skill cap, if you buff Terran to the point where good but not best-in-the-world Terrans like Gumiho, TY, etc. are still around in the GSL ro8 and win the occasional championship - doesn't that mean that guys like Maru/Taeja, because the Terran skill cap is highest and most rewarding for the best players, will actually be overpowered and crushing everyone?
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07-08-2014 , 09:41 PM
that's a good question, and one that i don't know the answer to.
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07-08-2014 , 11:24 PM
You needed MVP to not get carpal tunnel. RIP the true GOAT.
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07-09-2014 , 01:21 PM
just because they have the highest skill cap does not mean its actually close to being reached in any race. it would just be the same as when random zergs were winning things in wol, yet a few won a lot more often. top tier players might be 10% better than the others, but its not like they have 50x the apm which is whats needed to utilize the full "cap" of terran
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