Aui aint no admiral bulldog, everytime I see him offlane sylla it goes badly for dig. He's way better solo-ing the strong lane.

Also, wtf liquid, why you lose to dignitas in quarterfinals when u knew u can win !!

Apparently dignitas chose their strat in the last game because Aui had to take a final... makes sense now. Source: Universe, on demon's stream chat

The more I watch Fnatic play wisp the less I understand how he's ignored in the Asian scene. I know the normal reasoning is that the Asian teams are great at positioning and don't let you get pick-offs but even in the laning phase wisp phase is insane, even more so if paired with a CK.

Even if you don't get a good start with wisp, the amount of map control it gives you allows your carries so much space that you can come back from it. I don't think I've ever actually seen Fnatic be in that situation playing wisp, as they always crush the laning phase (they're 7-0 with wisp recently), but I've seen it happen against them.

I was watching a dude on liquid stream some games as a carry treant p. It was legit.

Yeah I often see wisp/pl not get banned or picked in the Asian scene. The strong Asian teams definitely know something about it that the euros don't and I wonder what that is.

Zenith have been playing like *** without xy. So disappointing to watch them lose.

solo MM loss streak ends at 10 games, up from my previous streak of 8

rough. Were you just tilted and playing like **** towards the end of that?

I have seen wisp before as a 4th or 5th pick if they can tell the enemy team doesn't have the proper trilane to deal with it.

Yo I played with you once randomly in MM I believe and you rage quit. Just saying.

I remember reading the developers forum and some dota 2 dude was saying that he was happy whenever someone's win or loss ratio was close to 50%. Apparently that is the goal of MM.

No I was trying my hardest every game. String of bad luck mainly. My longest win streak also in solo matchmaking is 11 games. My win percent is a little under 52% and given I've played almost 1800 games it isn't really out of the question. It's actually expected to happen about once in a string of 1500 games on average.

I do RQ more than your average Dota player, 40 abandons in 1800 games. Not in this streak though, no RQ or giving up, etc

Oh two of the ten games were practicing naix jungle which I haven't done before

YYF/Chuan/Mushi are prob the 3 best players in the world. YYF is just insane. His positioning is the best in the world, which is why he plays those crucial heroes like Windrunner, Brew etc. Chuan is just a machine. So flexible. Mushi is the best solo mid and can rape anyone 1v1.

Fnatic very rarely run wisp in a trilane, preferring duel mid, which means the opposing trilane isn't such an important factor. Dark seer is just about the only hero who can get decent cs solo vs a wisp/ck lane mid without dying over and over again - and that relies on staying at long range and csing with ion shell so is likely not to get full solo exp.

Fnatic actually ran a solo mid wisp against Empire earlier this week. He got first blooded at level 1 by an invis rune gank and still was level on cs vs Scandal's clinkz 6 minutes in. He then proceeded to gank all over the map for the next ~8 minutes whilst Scandal finished his orchid and the game was basically over by the time he picked it up.

I hate naix jungle. He doesnt do anything. Stays in jungle for 15 mins then comes out and does nothing. has no presence.

So I just watched Fnatic vs Empire in the TPL yesterday. Second game is a textbook example of the space wisp gives your carry when behind in a game. Wisp was solo mid vs puck, got better cs but struggled after the first few minutes and got ganked a couple of times. First few relocates went horrendously and Fnatic were getting crushed, down 10K gold and experience. Turtle and split push with Tiny/Wisp allowed Tiny to get huge and they ended up winning without losing a rax.

was a good game. fnatic is soo good coming from behind.

Haven't figured out this hero yet. He's weird. His ult has nice range tho.

Naix is super good in a offensive tri lane. Has sick burst early on and has a built in bkb. Just you lose him when he goes in the jungle and can get picked off real early. Enigma comes out with meka/blink and can push team fights and shove lanes. Naix comes out with midas, boots and a helm and does......??

Naix jungle is fine in pubs, maybe not a high mmr though because his jungle speed is almost absurdly slow early, but he has a good ability to jump out and gank your lane. The worst thing about Naix jungle imo is that it kind of necessitates of a max feast first build, which is less than ideal when max rage first is so much better. It's also not very hard to gank a naix that only has 1 point in rage. Naix does great AGAINST trilanes even more so than in them, especially in a tri vs tri scenario in which the naix tri can never come out worse than even when you know he isn't going to die without getting fair compensation for it. You never want to lose your carry in a tri, and having naix there ensures it. iG has been running naix as the 2 or even 3 in the laning phase, but then he almost always comes out as the 1 because of yyf's ability to never get shut down.

I want to get back to the wisp topic later as a wisp+1 dual lane mid can be exploited in a few ways, and tbh when teams are already grouping up so early I don't think the global presence of a wisp relocate really puts enough pressure on a team as you have such a small window from lvl 6 to whenever enemy cores come up (which no matter how they lane it, they should win at least 2 lanes pre- lvl 6 wisp) before they start deathballing and taking a tower every minute.

I'm intrigued as to what your suggestions for exploiting the wisp+1 dual lane are. I bet I'll be able to find a Fnatic game where they went against it and won though

I don't doubt that really great play and a perfect strategy could beat a well played wisp lineup but it has to be virtually perfect. The empire game is a great example of how you can do everything almost perfectly and still lose.

4 more rares on Dignitas in Dignitas 74% v. QPAD 26%. Dignitas can't lose imo.

I want to try and give an in-depth answer to this because it's a pretty popular topic without any clear answers, but I can't really give a great answer without thinking more about it either.

But 1-2-2 laning is definitely weak against 1-1-3. You shut down 1 hero in the 2v1 while you get 2 heroes shut down in the 2v3. If you run 1-1-3 yourself with a wisp trilane then you will probably lose to enemy's tri so it's not a great idea either. I think in general wisp team loses the laning phase.

How often is disruptor picked now as a wisp counter?

I was thinking about this just for fun. How many heroes could you name as signature heroes of players? Regardless of whether this player plays the hero the best or whether he has done anything significant with the hero, I always associate the following heroes with these players.

Templar Assassin, Ferrari 430 (raped everyone at the international with this hero)

Pudge, Dendi (only player which Chinese teams occasionally ban pudge for)

Invoker, Iceiceice (played a great game 2 vs COL. The most amazing in game presence I've ever seen with an invoker)

Earthshaker, Hanni (ridiculous roaming ES. IMO the best hands down)

Anti-mage, Burning (fantastic farming skills)

Meepo, notail (only player I've seen win and crush matches with a meepo)

QOP, Mushi (unbeatable solo mid with this hero. He shut down Dendi's invoker at the international)

Chen, Puppey (played a great Chen vs EHome in the game 1 finals at the first international)

Can't think of more for now. Merlini's zeus and yaphets sf don't count as those were dota 1 days.

Enigma - PPG

Beastmaster - DeMoN

Bounty Hunter - funn1k

Storm Spirit - GodKillThemAll

Morphling - Korok

Tinker - Merlini (created BoT on Tinker)

Name others after.

a lot of pro games being DDOS'd atm and betting is seen as the incentive... anyone betted yet on dota 2?

I agree that aggressive tri-lane is the only real way to deal with the 1-2-2 but you're basically flat out sacking mid. You really need to be getting kills on the tri-lane, if the dual lane is getting easy exp you're losing overall. There's always the threat of the wisp turning into a solo mid as well depending on how the draft goes, which could end up with you losing the tri-lane, which is a huge deal when you go aggressive. I think you need a really great draft to be in a good position and then even better play to beat it.

As for disruptor as a counter, I don't know that I've ever seen it.

I'm very interested to hear an in-depth answer though because I'm sure there are good reasons for it. It's just so weird the way it's a perma-ban in Europe/CIS and almost never banned or picked in Asia. Will be fun to see what happens if the state of the game is similar when we get some overlap, either with Fnatic in g-league or at TI3.