I don't think its necessary to become picky with numbers. Furthermore, I think 50% of regs at 25/50 are msnl bum hunters is severely understating it, he was probably just trying not to get flamed. It's probably around 90%. And yes, if you sit down at 25/50 on a regular basis I'd consider them a reg at least.

This is way off topic anyways but to say the state of the 25/50 hu games isnt ridiculous would be ignorant.

maybe you can just post your picture on imageshark and provide a link, so those of us who does not care to see the picture can save some time loading the page, and for the few that actually interested, they can just click a link

thats true.

i sit at 25/50 every session that i play, but this doesn't make me a 25/50 reg because i refuse action vs all regs. (i play w/ few regs sometimes, but usually because i am frustated or tilted).

i was only defending myself against jsnipes stating that it's "lol" for me to even claim that me being +EV for fullflush is even in the realm of possibility despite jsnipes having 0 experience with either of us. that's the problem with me posting what I have posted; you'll have people like jungleman and urubu (and Pasterbator to an extent) who can see what I'm saying is at least somewhat reasonable, if not very reasonable to them, because they actually play said stakes, and then you'll have everybody else (the majority of people that post here) claiming otherwise based on no personal evidence. they will not only disregard what I say but try to flame me in an indirect way when I'm only trying to lay out an honest opinion of mine that is different from the rest of 2+2's. I understand that fullflush could be better than me at HU (a lot better even), but from what I've seen I can't say that and it has nothing to do with ego.

I would say a lot of players who are general BR nits would have an edge on fullflush. i'd put former 25/50 regs like gaucho, who i last saw at 3/6, as having an edge on fullflush; he just didn't run as well and went on a giant downswing. he's a very good player, and i never felt comfortable in our matches against each other because he was very good. against fullflush, i didn't feel comfortable because i knew i'd never win a flip or cooler him.

the response to what I posted is 2+2 indoctrination at its finest, which is why I usually choose to just not comment on it. i only did because urubu asked and i thought it was fine to be candid with him about these issues since he actually plays 25/50, and I just wanted to emphasize to him that variance really hits home that high.

and yes, i do classify people who sit at 25/50 on a regular basis to be regs even if they don't play any other reg. the situation at 25/50 is pretty ridiculous too, but most people won't actually know anything apart from what they've been told about it.

i just want to make clear to those reading this that there's a huge difference between 2+2 indoctrination/perception and the reality out there in the field. like all message boards, some things just end up getting repeated as truth. poker, however, is a very dynamic game and can't be treated in absolutes like that.

also, i'm not some donk who hit a 3 month heater, so there's no need to treat me as such. i was winning at 20+ bb/100 at MSNL before the heater.

haha ok u basically just said the same exact things u did the post before. Yes obviously when i said stress i was referring to variance thanks for explaining to me what that is and how it can stress someone out regardless of how plus EV they are. yea your right bout the 500/1k games im sure, i have no doubt that 25 50 might be tougher consistently. I didn't disagree with you, I just used it as an example of your brag attempts. Basically all I said in the last post is how funny i think it sounds for someone to not play at a certain level ( or play at all) and make paragraph long justifications on a poker forum for not playing all while doing more than implying you think ur better than pretty much (just like i said in last post) everyone and could be beating the stakes if you wanted to be. Also yeah I do play poker but I don't attention whore my way around 2+2 24/7 talking about one month of poker I played either so you probably don't know me or ever will.

exactly..it should be two, the rule actually has made it worse when a lot of regs used to have a respect for each other to all sit at one or two now end up at 4..

omfg http://www.pokertableratings.com/ful...h/tilted247365
why is this guy still playing 1/2?

Way too much reading ITT now.

Then you'll have a chance to win your money back as he's going back to play at FTP within the next week. Unless he's already back

And i agree, i like to watch him as well as he's entertaining and he bluffs a LOT.

b/c he's a bad bumhunter and won't play decent regs?

I've sat with him about 10x and he'll never play.

That Husan_Ninja guy is up 100k at 1/2 too

Out of all my posts, probably 4% are brag posts at most. Out of your entire poker career, probably 4% of your days could be brag posts at most.

Keep talking out of your ass about things you have no experience with though! one day u shall fly.





on an airplane.

tilted's win rate is literally insane

cftw, Why don't you just play games you're rolled for (psychologically speaking)? Making $2.40/hand at 3/6 can't be that bad or even have much variance!

Also, do you really only have ~20k hands lifetime at 25/50? (tr shows 17k so I'm adding a few naturally) Don't you think it's a bit early to be making such big claims about other 25/50+ players?

I'm not saying you're a bad player or that I disagree with the points you are making, but reading these past few pages of posts piqued my interest. For someone who abhors variance as much as you it seems silly that you think a couple months at HS means ANYTHING. For reference, I give you blueflare: http://www.pokertableratings.com/ful...arch/blueflare

what a trainwreck

lost 80something K to mirttinur on sunday and about 90 altogether:C , more than twice the amount of my previous worse day

it feels like the world is ending....

17.7ptbb for tilted at 1/2 over 100k hands asklfsjadlsdf;adfskasdflak

He only played ******s, babies and drunk housewives.

so what? it takes other skills besides playing ability to sustain a very high winrate

I swear HU is not dead LOL

HU is dead at any stake you can make decent money.

I am not trolling you nebeur. Yo prolly think I am after the 400NL hand discussion. But are you being serious here or levelling?

That winrate (sustainable or not) is at least $150 an hour (250h/hr)!!!!! Where I come from that is a sick amount of money to earn. I am from UK so its about £100 an hour. I work for the government earning £20 an hour after tax, which is a pretty solid income form most people in this country. The minimum wage is like £5.50 an hour.

Obviously making $500/hr at 5/10 or 10/20 may no longer be that easy but seriously, anything over $100 an hour is a lot of money to anybody outside of the poker playing community (the real world as I like to call it, where money actually means something).

I just don't understand why people think the games are dead because it is not that easy to earn $250,000 a year playing 5/10. If you could earn $100,000 a year playing 20 hours a week at whatever level thats a pretty good lifestyle as far as I am concerned. I guess its all subjective and maybe $100,000 a year is not a lot to some people but to 99.9999% of the worlds population working 20 hours a week for $100k is pretty good imo!

First of all, TR is not accurate at all for me. they lost a lot of hands in their upgrading.

second of all, i thought blueflare was terrible while he was on his heater. i sweated vs. him a few times at MSNL and played him at HSNL before he refused to play me ever again.

I'm not basing what I'm saying based off of results. Just because somebody open shoves Q6 and wins a hand doesn't make him good. Yea, he won $$, but he would still be a bad player imo. When blueflare went on his heater, i KNEW he was going to lose it back and just prayed that some of it was going to come to me. When somebody 3-bets 40% no matter how you play vs. him and barrels down, you don't have to be a genius to say he's bad.

A couple of months at HSNL made me realize that it isn't much different from MSNL, which is why blueflare's heater at MSNL transitioned to HSNL so well before it abruptly ended and his losing style of poker finally kicked in.

In fact, i think blueflare exemplifies my point about variance more than anything. Many of my students/real life friends talked about how bad blueflare was after playing him at MSNL and how they couldn't believe he was playing 10/20 and 25/50 and crushing it. By 2+2 standards, people might have thought he was "good" just because he was making money and poker is all skill ldo.

Does anybody know a good link where is discussed the "booomhunting" topic?

I totally agree that there's a difference in what people really do and what people are perceived to have accomplished. There really aren't that many people making 500k+/year playing poker. The longer I play the more I realize this number is smaller than I ever thought.

But I do want to put something out there for all members of this forum... I think I'm exceptionally well qualified to make this statement since I've been on both sides of the coin. I've been the newcomer that made a few too many brag posts, maybe thought they were better than they were, maybe didn't fully grasp what it means to run good etc etc... and now after 2 years, several soul crushing downswings, 100k hands of breakeven, but still an overall exceptional winrate at MSNL I think I can comfortably call myself a veteran.

It was refreshing to me when people like Jsnipes and Paster politely shared their view of me when I made my meteoric rise (several months after the fact of course). He basically called me out for being the aforementioned braggart who may not have known how well I had it. In my defense I don't think I was completely out of line, I just could have toned it down a bit... I hope those who were there before me would agree to that but anyway... It's always nice to have your ego checked and I think I was in need of it. To be honest I won in almost every situation I was "supposed" to and made like $100k in less than the first 3 months of 2008 at the middle tiers of MSNL. It didn't feel like I was running hot because I wasn't sucking out etc. It's pretty moronic in retrospect... but I was running at sustained 2 digit PTBBs. To give some perspective, even after all my downswings and what not, my aggregate winrate across all stakes (mostly 2/4 - 5/10 but 12k of 10/20 and like 3k of 25/50) is 7-8 PTBB. I'm on my laptop right now so I'm not entirely sure. So it's not like I was running hotter than anyone had run before, but $1/hand at 2/4 and 3/6 is fairly hard to sustain unless you are playing a ton of 3/6.

Now I see the cycle again with a new generation of HU player. They may be starting to do well at MSNL, making decent money, getting offers from training sites etc... that's all well and good, but in a population of these players you also see more ******* responses to posts and more or less just an air of overconfidence that rubs people the wrong way. I think it's important that you take a look at yourself and ask yourself if you are one of these people. The important thing to realize is that there are a lot of veterans reading your post, who have made more money than you, who are better than you, yet don't treat you disrespectfully when you have a question or authoritatively post bad advice on a hand... so don't do it to the lowstakes people who post questions here. Or if you can't help yourself, don't respond to threads.

This post certainly wasn't designed to single out cftw. Hell... it's not even referring to him since he basically acknowledges everything that I think a veteran needs to acknowledge before they can move out of the adolescent stage of a successful MSNL player. This little mini-dramabomb just seemed like a nice segue to say something I feel needs to be said.

EDIT: And for the record, I totally agree about Blueflare being horrendous. I almost feel bad saying it because in all my playing vs him he actually seems like a decent guy. But he's a prime example of someone not being able to check his ego before the good players finally caught up with expectation. I could post some hands from the last few months with dude that would make you vomit.