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Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming

11-17-2013 , 08:33 PM
All -- The Sands Corp. and Sheldon Adelson are stepping up their oppostion to online gambling and specifically online poker. Tomorrow the Washington Post will run a story (perhaps on Page One) that will outline a new "coalition" that is being built and funded by Sheldon and Sands. It will contain some of the usual anti-gaming suspects and be enhanced with some major spokespeople who be the face of the coalition, including, a former Republican Governor, a former Democratic Senator and major city mayor. The campaign will be both state and federal focused and will include advertising, PR and lobbying. It is rumored that Sheldon/Sands are prepared to spend 10s of millions for this effort. The campaign will be announced this week and will launch in full this January.

One of the centerpieces of this campaign will be model federal legislation to ban online gambling (including poker) through a stregthening of the Wire Act (and presumably UIGEA). This would effectively prohibit states from moving forward with regulated iGaming. This is the type of nuclear option, I have warned about previously and it is exactly why we have remained on the offensive in Washington even though pro-Internet poker legislation is not likely in the short-term.

To be clear, this effort will be met with stiff opposition. I think that states, lotteries and other gaming interests will rally to oppose this. But THE MOST IMPORTANT voice in all of this will be the players and I hope that everyone will recognize this serious threat and will stand ready to defend their rights. We cannot rely on others to carry the fight and win the day. Remember, it was poker players who moved this issue for years before states, and other gaming interests came around to supporting Internet poker. And we again must be leaders.

Stay tuned as more details emerge.

John A. Pappas
Executive Director
Poker Players Alliance

Last edited by Rich Muny; 11-17-2013 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Updated title at request of OP
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:03 PM
This is a major escalation. It will take unified poker front to respond to this.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:13 PM
This guy is amazing
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:14 PM
Will the plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
Will the plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
Adelson is more opposed to online poker than to online casino-style gaming, so I expect our game to be firmly in the cross hairs here.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
Adelson is more opposed to online poker than to online casino-style gaming, so I expect our game to be firmly in the cross hairs here.
Why is he opposed to online poker more?
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:27 PM
Simple answer is that he is an evil, evil man.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdsfather
Simple answer is that he is an evil, evil man.
Before I grab my torch and pitchfork, could I get the complicated answer? The whole thing reads like bull**** power grab, old industry tries to keep out new industry, but what points is he using to sway those on the fence? The guy could be evil, but do any of his positions hold water?
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
This is a major escalation. It will take unified poker front to respond to this.
We need some concise talking points, something in the 'under 140 characters' range, to cover the basics . . . individual freedom, failure of prohibition to prevent the things argued by prohibitionists, capability of the technology of the day to address location, identity, age verification and the ability to detect and deter problem gaming behavior, etc
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:55 PM
Looks like the old ape is making noise again. We cannot let this old ape spew nonsense that is brainwashing the mainstream. We need to present the facts to everyone and prove why what Adelson is trying to accomplish will not work.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
Will the plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
We're effectively shut down federally and are barely online in 3 states with other states 1+ year(s) away from cards in the air.

Federally it sounds there's zero movement on pro-poker legislation, and in the states, its seems that it's a) lawmakers interested in taxes/jobs/regulating activities and b) businesses interested in profits that are driving things ahead. And that's all well and good - I'm glad these strong forces are pushing ahead.

But where are the poker players federally? Where are they in the states?

I don't hear anything about how "poker players" are paving the way. I'm not as close as you guys, and I don't know everything that's happening beneath the surface. But I read all the news, and I have not gleaned one iota of one hint that poker players are a driving force in any of this or that our desire to play online is factoring, even incidentally, into any of what's happening.

Now Adelson is possibly pushing ahead with "10s of millions" to finish off the job... and you guys are saying it's time to lead... it's time to unify?

How? What's the plan? How can we help? How can you lead? Tweeting lawmakers is a very nice touch, and I'm proud of everyone who is doing that every day, but it's obviously not tipping the scales. What are the next steps?

The notion of *unifying against* a federal prohibition is just a bad idea. We need to be unifying FOR something. What are we fighting for? What hope do we have to promote our own interests rather than fight against the interests of others?

It seems like we're 100% in reaction mode and show no ability to control our own destiny presently or over the past decade. We're already in a highly marginal situation... very little hope federally... an extremely slow going state-by-state patchwork... the incredible complexity of potential future state compacts... a never-ending threat of federal prohibition.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world is playing online. 100.000 on PokerStars right now.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtinsea
We need some concise talking points, something in the 'under 140 characters' range, to cover the basics . . . individual freedom, failure of prohibition to prevent the things argued by prohibitionists, capability of the technology of the day to address location, identity, age verification and the ability to detect and deter problem gaming behavior, etc
Yes, yes. Though I think we need to be a little careful of the individual freedom argument. Not avoid it, but be careful - it's an issue that's very important to us, and it certainly feels like a clear personal liberty issue, but I'm not sure that aspect matters so much to others or that others can understand it.

This was a good Tweet a few weeks ago from @joebrennanjr: "W/ NJ iGaming law, no politician ever asked me if poker was a skill. What they wanted to know: Can it be regulated, create jobs & be safe?"
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsolite
Before I grab my torch and pitchfork, could I get the complicated answer? The whole thing reads like bull**** power grab, old industry tries to keep out new industry, but what points is he using to sway those on the fence? The guy could be evil, but do any of his positions hold water?
I suspect some of it has to do with harming Caesars' business interests.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:23 PM
Wow. Looks like the article is up. This jumps out:

Quote:
He has about two dozen experts working nearly full time on the issue.
Link
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
Adelson is more opposed to online poker than to online casino-style gaming, so I expect our game to be firmly in the cross hairs here.
I meant what is our plan of attack against the Adelson campaign as poker players, not what is Adelson's plan of attack.

Here it is again (clarified):

Will our plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
I meant what is our plan of attack against the Adelson campaign as poker players, not what is Adelson's plan of attack.

Here it is again (clarified):

Will our plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
I welcome the input from the community on this, but for now the federal bill is only a draft and as far as we know there are not Congressional sponsors for it. So our federal strategy will depend on how this bill unfolds (or doesn't). In the meantime, we need to remind our federal lawmakers that we support regulation of Internet poker; nothing less.

Sheldon is also investing in blocking state efforts directly. He is engaging lobbyists in states where legislation is moving or expected to move like CA, PA, and IL.

John A. Pappas
PPA
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
I meant what is our plan of attack against the Adelson campaign as poker players, not what is Adelson's plan of attack.

Here it is again (clarified):

Will our plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
I understood. My point was that he's focusing on poker.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
Wow. Looks like the article is up. This jumps out:



Link
Quote:
Rival firms view Adelson’s initiative as a major threat and say they will mount a counteroffensive arguing that his proposed ban would foster a dangerous, unregulated black market.
We need to build on this part. The enemy of my enemy and all that.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:53 PM
The fiancée and I were engaged on the gondola ride at Venetian and for various reasons were going to redo our engagement the next time we were in Vegas. With this increased attack against online poker, we won't be redoing it at Venetian.

And I am writing them telling them why.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
We're effectively shut down federally and are barely online in 3 states with other states 1+ year(s) away from cards in the air.

Federally it sounds there's zero movement on pro-poker legislation, and in the states, its seems that it's a) lawmakers interested in taxes/jobs/regulating activities and b) businesses interested in profits that are driving things ahead. And that's all well and good - I'm glad these strong forces are pushing ahead.

But where are the poker players federally? Where are they in the states?

I don't hear anything about how "poker players" are paving the way. I'm not as close as you guys, and I don't know everything that's happening beneath the surface. But I read all the news, and I have not gleaned one iota of one hint that poker players are a driving force in any of this or that our desire to play online is factoring, even incidentally, into any of what's happening.

Now Adelson is possibly pushing ahead with "10s of millions" to finish off the job... and you guys are saying it's time to lead... it's time to unify?

How? What's the plan? How can we help? How can you lead? Tweeting lawmakers is a very nice touch, and I'm proud of everyone who is doing that every day, but it's obviously not tipping the scales. What are the next steps?

The notion of *unifying against* a federal prohibition is just a bad idea. We need to be unifying FOR something. What are we fighting for? What hope do we have to promote our own interests rather than fight against the interests of others?

It seems like we're 100% in reaction mode and show no ability to control our own destiny presently or over the past decade. We're already in a highly marginal situation... very little hope federally... an extremely slow going state-by-state patchwork... the incredible complexity of potential future state compacts... a never-ending threat of federal prohibition.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world is playing online. 100.000 on PokerStars right now.
I think the "you guys" comment spells out the issue. This is supposed to be a fight where the entire community comes together to stand up for our rights. Instead, many (and I'm not saying this includes you) act like the fight was outsourced to PPA.

We all need to come together to win this. If we don't, we may very well lose.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
Will the plan of attack be that poker is different and should be carved out if such a bill moves, or to align ourselves with pro-online gambling forces that want to forward state-by-state licensing and regulation of all online gambling and stop such a federal ban? Under which banner are poker players supposed to "unify"?
Let me try this again.

Adelson is after online poker and not a broader issue from which poker can be carved. We should align under the banner of opposition to this and in favor of legislation that moves poker forward.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
I think the "you guys" comment spells out the issue. This is supposed to be a fight where the entire community comes together to stand up for our rights. Instead, many (and I'm not saying this includes you) act like the fight was outsourced to PPA.

We all need to come together to win this. If we don't, we may very well lose.
Agreed. I don't mean to point fingers. I do appreciate your work. But I am losing patience and feel like we're spectators to a vast complex situation dictated by far stronger and better funded forces. I think regulated online poker is an inevitability, but I don't know whether it's 1 year away or 10 years away.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-17-2013 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyoman
Agreed. I don't mean to point fingers. I do appreciate your work. But I am losing patience and feel like we're spectators to a vast complex situation dictated by far stronger and better funded forces. I think regulated online poker is an inevitability, but I don't know whether it's 1 year away or 10 years away.
One issue we've always had in organizing is that many think it should be easy. It's hard, and it just got harder. I hope we'll all join together in the fight.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-18-2013 , 02:05 AM
Before my rant, I just want to point out how unlikely it is that anything will change on the federal level, positive or negative. And although this is bad news, it doesn't really mean too much. Poker is changing on the state level and no matter how much Adelson spends, as it continues to be legalized, the feds will either get on board or the states will compact. Either way, it will either never be like it was pre BF or it won't be for years. Now for the rant...

If there is ever going to be a rallying point this seems to be it. I have lost a lot of faith in the poker community lately and hopefully this will be a turning point. They are very loud and quick to point fingers but just generally aren't active and seem very apathetic. This news isn't anything new regarding Adelson other than the amount of money, and yet the Venetian still has high participation numbers for all its tourny events. The rooms is still always busy. It shouldn't be. We as players should be informing others about what is happening and we shouldn't go there. There are plenty of other rooms in that city that are not owned by Sands.

The 2014 Deep Stack will probably start in January again. How about a boycott? Boycott the room. Boycott the tournaments. There is more than enough time to make this happen. Hit them in their pockets. They know how much poker helps the casino. Get players to stop spending money there. Turn to a competitor. Adelson is worried that online gaming will cut into their market share. So...lets do it early. Turn to a competing casino and giving them our business.

In states that are considering poker very few poker players or enthusiasts come out to do anything. Without attacking the PPA, they are doing what they can but its not enough. They cannot do it alone. We need to be more active on our own and we need to make people notice that poker players care about their futures. People need to stand up for themselves.

IMO the biggest problem is a lack of information. The general public and the people in charge don't know what online poker is and don't know the difference between online poker and a slot machine. Its very easy for someone like Adelson to say online poker is gambling that hurts society and should be prohibited and have people agree with him because people don't know any better. The entire poker industry needs to separate itself further from general gambling.

I apologize for the lack of cohesion in this post. I'm just someone that has been up too long and drank too much this weekend. So much complaining and pointing fingers and so little action. Do something if you care or stop complaining.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote
11-18-2013 , 02:50 AM
Just came back from Vegas. Wife wanted to take a gondola ride at venetian. Told her no chance am I spending a dime at Sheldon's property. Hit him where it hurts.
Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson escalates effort to ban online poker & online casino gaming Quote

      
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