Soccer/Football: Summer Transfer Market 2011 Thread - Page 16 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

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05-26-2011 , 01:54 AM

#376

sethypooh21

Make or Miss League

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 47,037

Hard time seeing Milan selling Silva.

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05-26-2011 , 03:00 AM

#377

ashley12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,692

Hey guys, can you settle an arguement for me and a friend of mine.

Obviously when a player is sold, the total price is made up of a number of factors such as

- How much skill the player has in general (ldo)
- Years left on the current contract
- Age
- Marketability
- Demand for that player in particular
- How keen Team A is to keep him

Anyway, we were looking at the two additional "taxes" of sorts,

1) The English tax in England, and why the prices floated around for Ashley Young and Baines are higher then other players within the Premier League with roughly the same ability that are internationals, and

2) Selling to a domestic rival, such as Fernando Torres going to Chelsea (yeah, I know, Liverpool suck etc...) and potential rumours at the moment of Nasri to Man Utd.

And overall, which "factor" increases the price of a player more in a vacuum i.e Would an English version of Fernando Torres at Liverpool sell for more or less to Real Madrid (after pressure from English teams) then a Spanish version from Liverpool to Chelsea?

It turned into a really angry debate but I will let you guys think/talk about it before giving my side of the arguement (obviously not just in the case of Torres, but players in general)

Apologies if this seems a somewhat stupid arguement.

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05-26-2011 , 06:18 AM

#378

SirGaribaldi

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,941

nationality matters, many teams "overpay" for players of their own country

(bayern, neuer , gomez) (manu, hargreaves) (barca fabregas) etc

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05-26-2011 , 06:44 AM

#379

kp1022

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,219

via twitter palermo's zamparini to corriere:

@barcastuff
Zamparini: "I think Pastore will join Barcelona. It seems that Messi asked for him. Those two would form a fantastic duo." [corriere]

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05-26-2011 , 06:48 AM

#380

ceire

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 7,541

Quote:

Originally Posted by aditya

what are the reasonable estimates for his stock? I've heard 25m basically all summer with Arsenal apparently already having launched a 25m bid and Juventus have already been rejected. If there's sorta a bid war, I wouldn't doubt seeing him go for 30m.

Also, is Thiago Silva for sale (Read reports)? Getting him at Madrid would be dream come true. That back line would be pretty damn good for once.

Are we talking 30million euro or ponds? either way your hearing is different from what is going to happen, there is no way i.m.o he goes for 30 million ponds, esp from arsenal. I think it just a commons senses thing, no one is going to pay the same amount for a player that has sat on the bench for the lasts two seasons, plus Madrid are the worst sellers in the business.

Last edited by ceire; 05-26-2011 at 06:57 AM.

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05-26-2011 , 07:11 AM

#381

ChopSueyyy

formerly IRunWorse

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 18,735

wenger stealing all the barca prospects

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05-26-2011 , 07:53 AM

#382

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

@ ashley

They all contribute but obviously age, ability and the value of their remaining contract are the main factors.

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05-26-2011 , 07:57 AM

#383

ashley12

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meh, i have $$$ on which side a generally intelligent group of fans would think is larger, so if anyone wants to pick which is the greater factor would be cool...

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05-26-2011 , 08:03 AM

#384

Bramsterdam

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,889

I think the "rival" factor outweights the "nationality" factor by a decent margin. It might be somewhat close in the UK, but nationality matters less outside the UK

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05-26-2011 , 08:06 AM

#385

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

The single biggest factor is the value of their remaining contract.

If you're asking about this..

Quote:

And overall, which "factor" increases the price of a player more in a vacuum i.e Would an English version of Fernando Torres at Liverpool sell for more or less to Real Madrid (after pressure from English teams) then a Spanish version from Liverpool to Chelsea?

..then I would confidently say the Spanish version going from Liverpool to Chelsea would cost more.

(i'm ignoring the assumed interest from English teams in player 1 because it skews the debate, unless there is assumed interest from Spanish clubs in player 2?)

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05-26-2011 , 08:19 AM

#386

Ra_Z_Boy

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 36,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashley12

You make this impossible to answer as your question basically asks who would sell for more, an English or Spanish Fernando Torres in England given your English clubs pressure caveat and the answer is obviously English Fernando. However I suspect this is not actually the debate you are having so that question needs changing.

I think this question is difficult to answer if I understand it correctly (I assume this means England only as the answer would vary from place to place). On the face of it, I would guess that English player value added tax is higher in England as selling to rivals happens very seldom, we only have a small sample size to go on and if it was a big player he would be going for a big price to anyone who wished to buy him anyway so there is a limit on just how much the tax can be and for the club to still be interested.

The list of overpriced English players is much longer than overpriced players going to rivals. Vastly so.

I suspect in other countries this is completely flipped on its head.

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05-26-2011 , 08:34 AM

#387

kitaristi0

l'étranger

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,139

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin21

David De Gea released a statement through his lawyers earlier tonight which reads:

The statement also indicated that De Gea may even consider an extension to his current deal at Atletico, but will not make any decisions about his future until his commitments with the Spanish U21 side have ended on June 30.

Make of that what you will

July 1 is also when his contract with his current agents expires and he gets his new agent Jorge Mendes who arranged the whole deal so that's why nothing will be officially announced until then.

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05-26-2011 , 08:39 AM

#388

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitaristi0

July 1 is also when his contract with his current agents expires and he gets his new agent Jorge Mendes who arranged the whole deal so that's why nothing will be officially announced until then.

Yeah this is true, Balague mentioned he was trying to end his deal with his agent early for this purpose.

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05-26-2011 , 08:43 AM

#389

kevin21

SE Spokesman

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 62,020

Jorge Mendes who is not his agent right now got the deal done 2 months ago while his current agent had nothing to do with it?

How is that allowed?

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05-26-2011 , 08:46 AM

#390

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

How is what allowed? De Gea has agreed to nothing

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05-26-2011 , 08:52 AM

#391

kevin21

SE Spokesman

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 62,020

Ha! Very true.

After the QPR fiasco, it seems anything goes.

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05-26-2011 , 08:57 AM

#392

Ra_Z_Boy

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That is amazing.

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05-26-2011 , 09:29 AM

#393

daca

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Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 10,533

There's been some dodgy stuff with United and Jorge Mendes before right?

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05-26-2011 , 09:38 AM

#394

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

Yes, the Bebe transfer.

He shafted another agent out of that deal and made himself a fortune, there was a lot of suspicion around that deal. Fingers were also pointed at Ferguson and Carlos Queiroz.

edit:

Quote:

Gonçalo Reis has spent five months stewing on the betrayal he felt when he was sacked as the agent to Tiago Manuel Dias Correia – Bébé – who then, two days later, moved to Manchester United for €9m, the most improbable signing in the career of Sir Alex Ferguson, who admitted he had never seen the player kick a ball.

A 20-year-old who spent his youth in care near Lisbon after being abandoned by his parents, Bébé had played only one season, 26 matches, for Estrela da Amadora in the Portuguese third division, before Reis negotiated a move for him to a first division club, Vitória Guimarães. Last summer Bébé played four pre-season friendlies for Vitória, and sacked Reis as his agent on 5 August by letter, which Reis says he received on 9 August; then Bébé was the subject of a deal with United that works out as £7.5m on 11 August.

United confirmed subsequently that Jorge Mendes, agent to José Mourinho, who has become a huge influence in Portuguese football and previously negotiated the moves by Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson to Old Trafford, acted for Bébé. Vitória's directors stated at their annual meeting late last year that Mendes, after seemingly less than a week's work, had been paid €3.6m of the €9m fee. Reis had a two-year contract to act as Bébé's agent from August 2009 to August this year.

Now Reis says he is "seriously considering" making a formal complaint to Fifa about the manner in which he lost his client to Mendes. "I spotted Bébé playing," he recalls, "I could see he had talent but, because of the person he is and his very poor and difficult background, I had to look after him very closely as a person, as well as be his agent. I negotiated his move first to Estrela, then to Vitória, then last summer he went missing on me. I read that he had agreed an improved contract with a €9m buyout clause at Vitória, then I suddenly received this letter in which he purported to say our relationship was at an end. Two days later he went to Manchester United for €9m. I am now very seriously considering making a complaint to Fifa."

Mendes has made no comment on his role in taking Bébé to United, or to confirm whether he did indeed receive €3.6m of the €9m fee, as stated by Vitória's directors. Reports in Portugal of the club's annual meeting last October said Mendes made the bulk of his money by selling the player's "economic rights" to United, rather than for acting as his agent. The contract Reis says he was negotiating for Bébé at Vitória was that the player himself would keep 30% of his economic rights, meaning he would receive that proportion of any transfer fee Vitória sold him for. Vitória's directors reported that Bébé did indeed have such a clause, but that Mendes, before agreeing the deal with United, had bought Bébé's 30% of his own economic rights – for €100,000. When Bébé was then sold on to United days later, Mendes had become entitled to 30% of United's €9m fee, which worked out at €2.7m. The further €0.9m is assumed to be his fee for acting as the agent – a further 10%. Vitória were left with 60% of the fee, according to the reports, €5.4m.

In response to a detailed series of questions about Mendes's earnings on the Bébé deal and Reis's complaint, a spokesman for Mendes's Gestifute agency said: "There is no basis for any action against us in relation to Bébé." She also said: "We never discuss publicly details of the deals brokered by us."

United themselves described Bébé's signing as "one of the most astonishing transfers of the summer," which is an understatement. When the club suddenly bought him on 11 August, Bébé had very little formal football coaching behind him and barely registered as a player in Portugal until Reis negotiated his move to Guimarães, where he played well in pre-season friendlies. Ferguson said Bébé had been recommended to him by his former assistant, Carlos Queiroz, also a client of Mendes and at the time the Portugal manager, and by scouts based in the country. Most extraordinary, perhaps unprecedented, was that Bébé was still living in the Caso Do Gaiato care home, with 80 other boys and young men, until he moved to play for Manchester United.

Reis did believe Bébé had potential; he signed a two-year agreement to represent him as his agent, to run from 19 August 2009. Reis says he negotiated Bébé's first move to the partly professional, financially struggling Estrela, based in Lisbon's north-western outskirts, when Bébé was 19. The club's financial difficulties meant they did not pay Bébé, so he became a free agent. Reis tried to pitch the player's potential to bigger clubs in Portugal and around Europe, including PSV Eindhoven, who he says were not interested. Vitória, based in Guimarães in the north of the country, agreed to take a gamble on him.

Reis says he was negotiating the details of Bébé's proposed contract with Vitória from May last year. Bébé attacked his chance there, playing formidably in the pre-season friendlies. Reis claims Bébé suddenly went missing; he did not turn up to a scheduled meeting in Lisbon and Reis could not get him on his phone. From then, according to Reis, he had no contact with the player he had regarded as his protégé and potentially valuable client. He read in the newspapers that Bébé had signed a contract with Vitória, then, after notable performances, an improved one with the €9m buyout clause.

Bébé, a young man of poverty and patchy education, sent Reis a letter, dated 5 August last year, which said the contract they had was balanced in Reis's favour and that he was unhappy with complaints Reis had made to the Portuguese media about having been kept out of Bébé's negotiations with Vitória. Bébé said he had negotiated that contract himself. For all these reasons, the letter, signed by Bébé, said he was treating his contract with Reis to be his agent as at an end.

Fifa's rules on the conduct of agents, which Sepp Blatter's world governing body still currently oversees although it is about to abandon licensing of agents altogether, state that an agent cannot induce a player to breach his contract with another agent. When Mendes became involved is not clear, nor how he came to represent Bébé, a relationship United confirmed in the only interview Bébé has given so far, exclusively to the club's official website in November. In it, Bébé said he had been playing well for Guimarães in pre-season friendlies and: "Suddenly Jorge Mendes told me about the deal. I was very happy at the time, I didn't expect it. It was like a dream to me."

Reis says he restrained himself from complaining at the time because he did not want to disrupt Bébé's settling in period at United. "What happened was wrong," Reis says. "If he had come to me, and said he is the major agent with the experience of deals at the biggest clubs and we should come to an arrangement, I would have talked to him. Instead I receive this letter signed by Bébé two days before he moves to Manchester United, with Mendes as his agent. That is not right."

Shortly after Bébé joined United, Ferguson lambasted as "vicious" reports that Bébé was too raw a footballer amid the polished skills exhibited by the senior players at Old Trafford. Bébé has made two appearances as a substitute in Premier League matches, played three times in the Carling Cup and once as a substitute in the Champions League, at Bursaspor where he scored in a 3-0 victory. He has also played for Portugal Under-21s, many of whose players Mendes has represented in recent years, along with the majority of the senior national side.

At the time Bébé went to United, Emilio Macedo, the president of Vitória, hailed the work Mendes had done. "Jorge Mendes has been the bulwark of this transfer," he said. "With all due respect to other agents, this country owes him a lot because he handles large transfers and brings money into the country. This is like an export."

Last edited by Langerdang; 05-26-2011 at 09:47 AM. Reason: added story

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05-26-2011 , 10:09 AM

#395

kitaristi0

l'étranger

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,139

Taking over from other agents and immediately brokering high profile big money moves for players and coaches seems to be Mendes's MO. He did it with Mourinho to Chelsea, Nani and Bebe and probably quite a few others. Then again that's probably SOP for most football agents.

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05-26-2011 , 10:16 AM

#396

Langerdang

realest fan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 9,370

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ukaku-20m.html

Quote:

Roman Abramovich has taken time out from his search for a new manager to tie up a £20million deal for teenage striker Romelu Lukaku.
Sportsmail understands the Chelsea owner consulted senior members of his Stamford Bridge staff earlier this week about Lukaku and agreed that they should press ahead with a move, despite the void created by Carlo Ancelotti's sacking.

Young gun: Romeu Lukaku (left) is regarded as one of Europe's top talents
Favourite: Anderlecht fans love the striker

Chelsea have already been assured by the 18-year old's advisers that he sees his future at Stamford Bridge, and Abramovich is now in the process of agreeing a fee with Anderlecht.

Though the Belgium club were hoping for approaching £30million for their powerfully-built frontrunner, they will accept nearer £20million after he made little secret of his wish to become a Chelsea player.

Sources close to Lukaku, who has already broken into the senior Belgium side and scored two goals in nine appearances, have confirmed he views Chelsea as his main option.

It is understood the transfer will now be rubber-stamped after Belgium's game against Turkey next Friday, June 3.

Lukaku has always modelled himself on Didier Dogba, yet, ironically, his arrival could hasten the veteran Chelsea striker's departure.

Drogba is on Jose Mourinho's wanted list, and Real Madrid's former Stamford Bridge boss could now follow up his interest after strengthening his hold on power at the Bernabeu in the wake of Jorge Valdano's sacking as director general.

Mourinho had increasingly been at odds with Valdano but is now free to pursue a list of targets that includes Drogba, after president Florentino Perez stepped in and ended the power battle.

Here is the self-confessed Chelsea fan on a tour of Stamford Bridge, pictures he posted on his facebook.

Last edited by Langerdang; 05-26-2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason: daily fail I know but this one has legs

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05-26-2011 , 11:45 AM

#397

philipsaurus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,246

agent claims Arsenal and Spurs will meet Falcao's release clause

would be surprised if Wenger even offered half of the 30M euro release clause. he can go to spuds and europa league if he wants.

if Porto is willing to let him go for ~20M euros though, I could see Wenger being interested