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Old 03-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #1751
Krayz
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

If he learns to throw as well as one of the top QBs I believe it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 PM   #1752
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
If he learns to throw as well as one of the top QBs I believe it.
So you're saying if he can throw as good as Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning.. he'll be as good as them at QB?
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:08 PM   #1753
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

lol nvm, lol krayz

religion is a helluva drug
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:13 PM   #1754
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
If he learns to throw as well as one of the top QBs I believe it.
Ah yeah, I understand now. If he turns into a completely different player to what he is now he will have a completely different ceiling. Cool.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:14 PM   #1755
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by brandoncla View Post
I think he deserved to have that chance. He deserved to have the support from management. And, we will never know what could have been.

I don't know where your going with this... trying to bait me into Tebow > Peyton isn't going to happen.
What could have been is a bunch of wobbly passes and some cool runs.

This whole loyalty discussion is pretty lol. The job of a GM is to make maxEV decisions and bringing in Peyton is a nobrainer. Trying to get rid of Tebow with as little media/fan backlash as possible is also a nobrainer.

Elway has done a really good job so far, didn't expect that tbh

This sucks on many levels because I do like Peyton so I can't even fully root against him. We got 1-2 teddied pretty hard...sell the farm for lolPalmer and Broncos go from lolTebow to Peyton and an easy out from Tebow...NFL clearly rigged. Here's to last place finishes in the division (Chiefs have a pretty good team imo, dunno about Chargers maybe we can leave them behind)
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #1756
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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So you're saying if he can throw as good as Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning.. he'll be as good as them at QB?
He'll be as good as Vick. All of those guys except for Rodgers are 30+. I don't see 3 QBs in this league under 29 that are better than theoretical Tebow peak.

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Originally Posted by GeoffRas22 View Post
lol nvm, lol krayz

religion is a helluva drug
Don't hate because I pray at the altar of Tebow. Burning of manning effigy is at noon tomorrow if you want to witness the glory of our Lord Timothy.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:17 PM   #1757
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
Ah yeah, I understand now. If he turns into a completely different player to what he is now he will have a completely different ceiling. Cool.
wtf, throwing the ball better doesn't change him as a player. Just because I have a controversial opinion doesn't mean you can just spout things that make no sense. Can disagree strongly with my opinion is fine, but don't say things that aren't what I'm saying.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:18 PM   #1758
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

Throwing the ball at the level of those guys *does* change him as a player.

He's a historically bad passer. Assuming he can ever throw anywhere in the realm of those guys is making him a completely different human being.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:18 PM   #1759
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
9/34 in INT% behind almost all top10 QBs outside Smith
his sample size is basically half that of everybody else on the list and int rate is pretty much the single most volatile qb stat that exists. also his usage and denver's run/pass ratio should obv affect his interception rate.

and on top of that it really wasn't sick low like smith's or anything (who also prob ran really hot) but instead was slightly above average. with a tiny sample size in a stat that basically has 0 correlation from year to year. yeah he prob is the goat at avoiding ints.

Quote:
In October of last year he was best in TO% (out of actives and all time players) defined as turnovers/(sacks+passes+rushes)

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...t_best%3F.html
so like this is a cool factoid i guess but it is four games
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:19 PM   #1760
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by clowntable View Post
What could have been is a bunch of wobbly passes and some cool runs.

This whole loyalty discussion is pretty lol. The job of a GM is to make maxEV decisions and bringing in Peyton is a nobrainer. Trying to get rid of Tebow with as little media/fan backlash as possible is also a nobrainer.

Elway has done a really good job so far, didn't expect that tbh

This sucks on many levels because I do like Peyton so I can't even fully root against him. We got 1-2 teddied pretty hard...sell the farm for lolPalmer and Broncos go from lolTebow to Peyton and an easy out from Tebow...NFL clearly rigged. Here's to last place finishes in the division (Chiefs have a pretty good team imo, dunno about Chargers maybe we can leave them behind)
Elway is a really legit businessman. Not surprising he is doing well on the business side of things. Hopefully he can evaluate talent well.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #1761
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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his sample size is basically half that of everybody else on the list and int rate is pretty much the single most volatile qb stat that exists. we could also discuss how things like usage and run/pass ratios affect interceptions rates if you really want.

and on top of that it really wasn't sick low like smith's or anything (who also prob ran really hot) but instead was slightly above average. with a tiny sample size in a stat that basically has 0 correlation from year to year. yeah he prob is the goat at avoiding ints.


so like this is a cool factoid i guess but it is four games
yeah, I know I stated it in the following post.

I can't find where to look up current stats. If anyone knows where TO% is tracked please post the link.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:21 PM   #1762
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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I don't see 3 QBs in this league under 29 that are better than theoretical Tebow peak.
cutler, rodgers, stafford, newton (to name a few) are all under 29 and tebow is an enormous dog to be close to as good as any of them already are. its not even a given that tebow will start next year nonetheless make this massive leap you are for some reason expecting.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #1763
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by chim17 View Post
Throwing the ball at the level of those guys *does* change him as a player.

He's a historically bad passer. Assuming he can ever throw anywhere in the realm of those guys is making him a completely different human being.
I give you 2003 Vick to 2010 Vick.



http://www.pro-football-reference.co...V/VickMi00.htm

69 rating to 100.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:24 PM   #1764
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by GeoffRas22 View Post
cutler, rodgers, stafford, newton (to name a few) are all under 29 and tebow is an enormous dog to be close to as good as any of them already are. its not even a given that tebow will start next year nonetheless make this massive leap you are for some reason expecting.
That's why it's a peak. I don't see Cutler/Stafford peak to be higher than Tebow's. Newton/Rodgers obv higher, which is why I said top 3
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #1765
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

Man if there was a way to bet against peaks for Cutler/Stafford vs Tebow I'd bet unlimited money and even lay odds.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #1766
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
I give you 2003 Vick to 2010 Vick.



http://www.pro-football-reference.co...V/VickMi00.htm

69 rating to 100.
2003 Vick was a way better passer than Tebow is now
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1767
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by Krayz View Post
Dude is a freak athleticly and will learn. Tebow ceiling >>> Mallet as a future QB.
Mallet's ceiling is similar because he has an absolute freak arm. Arguably the strongest in the NFL now. He can make throws other QBs flat can't. I have no idea if he'll reach that ceiling because of accuracy/decision making/etc but his ceiling is highhhhhhhh.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1768
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

A mobile/tank QB is always going to have a huge peak (Newton/Vick/Tebow), but will rarely ever get there. Certainly higher than a Stafford or Cutler. It's just you don't ever see them reach that potential very often.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1769
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

yea there's just no way tebow's peak is higher than cutler or stafford.

edit: lol at grouping tebow with vick/cam, one is not like the others
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1770
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

2003 Vick played 5 games. 2002 Vick completed 54.9%, 2004 Vick completed 56.4%.

While he has improved as a passer, he was never Tebow bad.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1771
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

Would like to see what teams offered. If Denver offered the most frontloaded gurantee contract it would be a fairly sick twist of events if Peyton knew all along he couldn't really play well and just wanted to bank one more year of high pay.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #1772
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by kolotoure View Post
2003 Vick was a way better passer than Tebow is now
Stats don't bare that out.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #1773
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Originally Posted by clowntable View Post
Would like to see what teams offered. If Denver offered the most frontloaded gurantee contract it would be a fairly sick twist of events if Peyton knew all along he couldn't really play well and just wanted to bank one more year of high pay.
And even if this happens, still a great move! Move on from Tebow era, eat tons of money when we have a lot of cap room, suck for Barkley.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #1774
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

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Stats don't bare that out.
Tebow might have been the worst passer in the last 20 years or so
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:31 PM   #1775
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Re: Peyton Manning landing spot - it's Denver

Didn't Michael Vick throw it out of a stadium when he was with the Falcons?

In all seriousness though, Vick's throwing motion was never as horrendous as Tebow's. Even with his "improved" motion it looks like the tip of the ball is going to touch the ground. He has no hope at all as a passer, and should take on more of a Brad Smith role.
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