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03-14-2011 , 02:29 PM
Mitch Albom > you

Anyone who's read his book knows how closely involved he was with the Fab Five. He has no reason to lie about this stuff, hell, he could have sold a lot more copies of his book if he thought Webber was taking a bunch of money and living extravagantly at Michigan.

The Ed Martin stuff was bad, but it's also consistently misrepresented in the way it's reported.
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03-14-2011 , 02:31 PM
The outrage over Rose's Grant Hill comments are pretty lol too. It's clear who actually watched the documentary closely. He specifically said he didn't hate Grant Hill because of how he was raised, he just hated that he didn't get that same opportunity. His dad completely abandoned him and left his mom with nothing. I probably would have resented someone in that situation too.

It's a documentary ffs, it's supposed to delve into issues a little deeper. Grant Hill, the Duke mystique, the NCAA and Michigan exploiting them for money... it's all meant to show how difficult the Fab Five's journey was and how different they were from people in seemingly similar situations.
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03-14-2011 , 03:09 PM
lol @ thundercat, I guess thundercat going to thundercat

tuq clowned this thread pretty hard but I did appreciate his passion and did chuckle a few times

It's hilarious that greear didn't know a teammate on the bench flashed a TO sign until last night, dude you're way too young for a puppy let alone multiple kids
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03-14-2011 , 03:14 PM
Webber is garbage in clutch-time.
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03-14-2011 , 03:28 PM
my favorite part was apparently 6'2 chris webber in approximately the 5th grade stealing the ball or blocking a shot or whatever, weaving around the 5' white kids, one of the white kids making this lol ******ed matador defensive swipe, and chris going in for the easy bucket
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03-14-2011 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
Just a correction, I was a walk on w/o a scholarship, but that's pretty irrelevant as well.

I mean, TC, I really don't think you understand what my POV here is. It's totally possible to say that college athletes are getting used AND that the fab five did a lot of damage to the athletic department. Compliance is nuts at Michigan about cars, money and jobs because of those guys. The basketball program suffered a ton of consequences because they decided to take $600k.

The fact that they are black doesn't excuse the huge rules violations they committed over a large period of time.

You're right I didn't understand your point. You said a couple of times what I was saying had nothing to do with what you said. Here you restated your point a little clearer and now I understand what you're saying much better.

Here's what I've been saying. I don't see how you can fault the Fab 5 for breaking the rules. If I looked around and everyone at my job was getting $100k under the table and only 5-10% were getting fired for it. I'd probably take the money too.

Now if you want to criticize them for being too flashy and bringing too much attention on themselves I'd buy some stock in that. Even in that instance, I would question the NCAA's motives for issuing penalties years later, ala Reggie Bush style. I think its the same reason Cam Newton was allowed to play in the national championship game this year. The NCAA doesn't really want to penalize these guys. They want them to play, they want people to watch the games drive ratings, and buy merchandise. Then later in an effort to maintain appearances they come in and penalize the school years after the players left. Which I never understood how that taught anybody anything. If a guy walks into a liquor store and holds it up, then you come back 6 months later and arrest a random guy walking in the liquor store for armed robbery. Is that going to stop the next armed robber from committing a crime?

I guess my bigger point is that I hold the student athlete to virtually no responsibility when I think the NCAA is set up in a piss poor way and if you want to complain about college athletics, start with them and work your way down to the players.

But as many have said, this is a valid discussion, just not one for this thread. So I think you made good points as did I, so we can let the issue rest.


edit: ike, in response to your lol post, about 90% of D1 programs paying athletes. Its not like they pay the walk ons, or just random scholarship athletes. They pay the Chris Webbers of the world, the guys they just can't go out and find another one of on any street corner. So of course you think its false b/c you were never paid. I think you're losing perspective on what happens on most college campuses b/c of your own personal experiences.

Last edited by Thundercat32; 03-14-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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03-14-2011 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heater
Can we start another thread on the topic of whether or not college players should be paid, please?
w/r/t this, it may not be a bad idea but I have a suspicion the discussion would be total AIDS. Still, it's better than infecting this thread, although things have died down a bit since you made this post.
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03-14-2011 , 04:06 PM
I thought the documentary was good, but I felt it was missing a few things also.

Obv, it would have been nice to hear from Chris Webber, but I think he declined not only b/c of the Ed Martin scandal, but to let the other 4 especially Jimmy and Ray have a bigger spotlight. So I can understand that.

I don't understand why the filmmakers didn't seek out Grant Hill or Coach K or Tom Izzo or anybody that had to compete against the Fab 5 for their opinions. Hell even hearing from the worthless Billy Packer might of been interesting. I would of liked to hear from more childhood friends of the Fab 5 and get more insight too.

Maybe its because I read the Mitch Albom book, but I thought a 2 hr special on the Fab 5 would of been more revealing. The video they showed was great as I've never seen that before. But the book was so much better. Just little funny things like Jimmy and Ray the first day they're on campus they're walking around with Juwan and some car muffler shoots off like a shotgun. Jimmy and Ray both hit the deck, but Juwan didn't even flinch b/c that was common place where he grew up and he just started laughing and busting on those guys for being scared. Or how Chris Webber's AAU coach thought he was soft and needed to be toughened up so he instructed the other players to foul Chris and foul him hard whenever they could until the point Chris was crying and wanted to quit. Chris' Dad told him "boy you begged me to let you play on this team and now you wanna quit? You're going to finish your obligation to that team". And it made him into the beast he was in the low post. There was alot more they didn't cover in the documentary it seemed a little too one sided with just Jalen, Jimmy, Ray, Juwan, and Coach Fisher's viewpoints being expressed mostly.
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03-14-2011 , 04:22 PM
just a couple thoughts on some of the stuff being discussed (although i haven't seen the Fab 5 doc yet):

- not really sure why people are being hard on Webber for taking money. i mean to quote State Senator Clay Davis, "...you think I got time to ask a man why he given me money or where he gets his money from, I'll take any motha****er's money if he given it away!". unless there's something i'm missing from not seeing the doc, i'm guessing that maybe this was an arrangement between Webber and a booster or something, and the school claimed to have no knowledge of it? if so, do we believe this?

- the NBA & NFL are probably very happy to have the NCAA act as their development leagues. pretty sure that in a lot of cases they are big money drains in sports that have them like MLB, NHL, and the soccer reserve/youth teams/academy system. now maybe they could be profitable due to the popularity of NCAA Football & Basketball, if the draft age was reduced to somewhere in the range of 16-18, and they ran real minor leagues. but yeah, probably too hard to set up now, given how established these NCAA sports are. would be interesting if they tried it though, and the leagues competed with the NCAA. could really backfire though if there isn't a market for it.

- about paying all athletes because these teams make so much money off of the kids, i think the argument is that not all programs make as much money as the mega-schools. and even in those cases, the profits from football or basketball basically subsidize all the sports that don't make any money, women's sports, scholarship programs, other school initiatives, etc. i'm sure some schools are still making a killing, and there's obviously a market to pay Chris Webber, or Reggie Bush, or Cam Newton $200-500k or whatever, but it's probably not practical to pay every players $50k or something (especially on huge football teams).
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03-14-2011 , 05:36 PM
I don't think quoting Clay Davis is a good defense of Chris Webber, lol.

I do agree with the general notion of **** the NCAA though
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03-14-2011 , 06:20 PM
thats was on the best documentarys yet imo
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03-14-2011 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
The outrage over Rose's Grant Hill comments are pretty lol too. It's clear who actually watched the documentary closely. He specifically said he didn't hate Grant Hill because of how he was raised, he just hated that he didn't get that same opportunity. His dad completely abandoned him and left his mom with nothing. I probably would have resented someone in that situation too.

It's a documentary ffs, it's supposed to delve into issues a little deeper. Grant Hill, the Duke mystique, the NCAA and Michigan exploiting them for money... it's all meant to show how difficult the Fab Five's journey was and how different they were from people in seemingly similar situations.
Pretty good article on how Jalen tried to reconcile with Jimmy Walker (his father).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...ge=Rose-Walker

Quote:
As the service ends, and as the many who've come to remember two-time NBA All-Star Jimmy Walker exit the Kansas City funeral home, Jalen Rose remains seated, his head partially bowed, his emotions visibly scrambled.

He is closest to the podium, where a steady stream of family and friends -- representing Walker's 63 years of life -- sang his father's praises moments before.

Rhode Island native Gail Silva, representing Walker's glorious Providence years, spoke glowingly of the college career that made "Walk" the top pick in the 1967 NBA draft. "In Providence today, you mention you knew Jimmy Walker," Silva says, "and you'd be loved, because there he is still an icon."


NBA Photos/NBAE via Getty Images
Jimmy Walker averaged more than 16 points per game over his nine NBA seasons.
NBA Hall of Famer Dave Bing, representing Walker's early professional career, spoke fondly of the rookie he took in as a roommate 40 years ago in Detroit. "I'm 22, Jimmy's 21 and we feel like we have the NBA's best backcourt," Bing recalls. "We played together, lived together and enjoyed each other as friends and as teammates. A great guy to be around; Jimmy had a big heart."

Darryl Mays, representing Walker's years in Kansas City where his NBA career concluded and where he eventually settled, spoke vividly of being taken under the wing by an NBA star as an 11-year-old. "He'd sit me on the bench of [Kansas City] Kings games, and take me into the locker room," Mays told the mourners. "How the friendship was forged, I'll never know. But Jimmy was a true mentor to me."

Rose, had he stood to speak, would have represented Walker's athletic gene. Had he addressed the crowd, Rose could have bragged about how for a long time the two were the top father/son scoring duo in NCAA Division I history, or boasted about how they are the only father and son tandem to each score over 10,000 points in their NBA careers.

Rose, however, sat silent.

His bewildered state is for good reason. Unlike the nearly 100 people gathered, Rose never knew Walker. Never even met him.

So this funeral on this July afternoon represents the first time Rose and Walker have shared the same room. Yet even now in Walker's death, Rose is unable to set eyes on the man who gave him life. Walker, his body ravaged by lung cancer, has been cremated. Rose is able to look only at a photograph of Walker perched next to an urn.

Later, at a gathering of Walker's family and friends, Rose is asked about his earlier moment of silent reflection.

"I was hurt, saddened, and selfishly disappointed that we never got a chance to meet," says Rose, who then lowers his head and closes his eyes. "You want to know something? We were supposed to meet this month, we were supposed to meet this month."

A whistle stops play during an early evening game at Detroit's famous St. Cecilia's gym, and an animated Rose leaps to his feet. Rose, a summer-league coach, gently rests his hands on the shoulders of one his players and offers words of encouragement. Dott Wilson, who for decades has been involved with the summer league, looks on and smiles.

"Just like Jimmy Walker," says Wilson. "It's amazing how neither [Jimmy nor Jalen] hesitated to reach out to the youngsters."

After his team loses, Rose leads the squad downstairs for a postgame pep talk. As the team disbands, Rose opens a side door, which opens to a darkened, cluttered office. "This is the place where I really learned who I was," he says.

He learned this particular lesson 22 years ago from the late Sam Washington, who was the director of St. Cecilia. Tired of Rose's constant goofing off in a sixth-grade class, Washington led him to the basement office. Clicking off the lights, he fed a reel into a projector and played highlights of Walker -- a solidly built shooting guard who reminded many of Oscar Robertson -- on the wall.

"That's your father," he told Rose, who sat mesmerized by the footage. "You have the same potential to be very special."


I was hurt, saddened, and selfishly disappointed that we never got a chance to meet," says Rose, who then lowers his head and closes his eyes. "You want to know something? We were supposed to meet this month, we were supposed to meet this month.
--Jalen Rose
Rose had long heard whispers about his biological father being a ballplayer, but was clueless until that moment about the extent of Walker's success. That's because his mother, Jeanne, rarely spoke about the man who abandoned her after she became pregnant in 1972.

"What was there to say?" says Jeanne, who met Walker at a popular West Detroit nightspot and didn't realize he was married at the time. "A year after Jalen was born, I told Jimmy, 'If you don't give me a dime, at least be a father to your son.' He couldn't even do that."

And that caught most who knew Walker by surprise.

In Detroit, kids were drawn to Walker's magnetic personality, and the All-Star guard welcomed them. He was in that first wave of NBA players who became a fixture at St. Cecilia and the nearby YMCA, offering fatherly advice and even tickets to Cobo Hall to many of the kids who played at the gym.

"Jimmy was the one guy who stayed in the community," Bing says. "He had a great connection with the local kids."

A great connection with all except for Rose, who was born in January 1973, months after Walker's trade to Houston. While Walker enjoyed healthy earnings befitting a top-round pick and an All-Star, Jeanne struggled raising four kids as a single mom on a Chrysler keypunch clerk's salary.

"No electricity, no hot water, no heat -- at times we struggled," Rose, the youngest of Jeanne's kids, says. "We'd wake up in the morning and wash with water we heated on a hot plate. And we'd go to bed at night wearing skull caps, sweat shirts and gloves."

Rose's life, in Motown, was a ball of confusion. Some days, his mother's struggles made him bitter. Other days, Rose was determined the man he would never see was the man he'd try to be.

A few weeks after watching the film, Rose tore open a pack of basketball cards, and guess whose image looked up at him? Walker. He slipped the card into his pocket and carried it everywhere he went. In those back-and-forth trash-talking sessions in the schoolyard, Rose's trump card was his Walker card. "That got me a lot of respect," Rose says.

Rose began to create an alter ego to his famous father. Hearing that Walker put on shows with his basketball skills at St. Cecilia, Rose did the same. Knowing that Walker had worn No. 24, Rose flipped the script and selected No. 42.

Looking back, Rose calls those actions "little spiteful things." But the reasons he did them, the drive that carried him to become one of the top high school prospects in the country by his senior season at Southwestern High School, were clear:

"I made a vow that one of the main things I wanted to accomplish in my life is that one day he'd know my name."

It's the 1992 NCAA Tournament. The nation's most intriguing team is Michigan, which features the Fab Five -- all freshman starters, including Jalen Rose. Mission accomplished: Everyone knows his name.

[+] Enlarge
Duane Burleson/Getty Images
The Fab Five caught the attention of the hoops world with their baggy shorts and black socks.
As the team prepares for its first tournament game, Rose says, Detroit Free Press columnist Mitch Albom -- who interviewed Walker for a book on the Fab Five -- hands him an envelope with an Atlanta return address. The name on the envelope: Jimmy Walker."

Easy decision, opening the letter, right?

"Not easy at all," Rose says. "It's the middle of the NCAA Tournament and I'm extremely focused. With a game coming up, I wasn't ready to deal with it. So I decided to wait a day."

A day became two days. Two days turned into two months. Two months turned into years.

It's not that Rose forgot about the letter: It was with him during his remaining years at Michigan, accompanied him in his rookie season in Denver, and sat in clear view in his desk drawer, right next to his wallet and car keys, when he was traded to Indiana.

Why the wait?

"I wanted to be mature enough when I read it," Rose says. "Whether that letter represented an overhand right by Mike Tyson, or the love of my life, I just wanted to be ready."

In 1997, Rose's second year in Indiana, the Pacers drafted Austin Croshere out of Providence. Croshere had won the school's most valuable player trophy (the Jimmy Walker MVP Award), and his presence became a steady dose of Jimmy Walker tidbits:

"You look just like your father. ... You should come visit Providence, everything at the school is named after your father. ... I've got a couple of trophies with your father's name."

In 1999, Croshere handed Rose a piece of paper. On it was Walker's phone number.

And, still, Rose waited.

But a year later, while packing for a road trip, Rose grabbed the envelope. And in Miami, on a bus ride to the team hotel, Rose slipped the letter out of a book and -- after eight years -- read it.

"It was his introduction to me, letting me know how proud he was of my accomplishments," Rose says. "He wanted me to know that it was [Albom] tracking him down that made him public. He said in the letter he was proud of the man that I had become."

Rose called Walker, but got Walker's friend instead. The friend linked Rose with Walker's sister. The sister passed Rose's information to Walker and the two exchanged messages until Rose picked up the phone and, after 27 years, nervously uttered the first words he had ever spoken to his father:

"Can I speak to Jimmy?"

Rose told his father that he had no hard feelings, that he was happy with his life, that he knew exactly where the athleticism he was blessed with came from. Walker told his son that he had followed his career, and that he was proud of how he had developed as a player.

"He was super-shocked," Rose says of the call. "But he handled it with poise. And he made a point of telling me he wanted nothing from me."

The two would speak several more times, and ended each conversation promising a face-to-face. But the e-mails became a bit more infrequent. The phone calls, too.

It took 27 years for Jalen and Jimmy to connect. It took less than a year for the two to drift apart.

Throughout Rose's NBA career, he could never escape being Jimmy Walker's son. He'd see Bob Lanier and hear stories about Walker's incredible scoring ability. He'd talk with Jerry West and the conversation invariably turned to the time the two paired in the backcourt during the 1972 All-Star Game.

A couple of years ago while Rose was playing against the Suns, Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni stood behind him and mumbled under his breath: "Yeah, you remind me of Jimmy when I was his practice dummy." D'Antoni was Walker's teammate in Kansas City.

Walker's NBA career spanned just nine seasons, ending in 1976 with the Kings. He never emerged as the dominant player he had been in college, where as a senior he averaged more than 30 points per game (before the advent of the 3-point shot).

"I really can't say why it never happened for him," Bing says. "He was so talented that when he left [Detroit], we all assumed he would blow up."

"I never quite understood why he quit because, hey man, there was no one better in the fourth quarter than Jimmy Walker," says Sam Lacey, Walker's teammate on the Kings. "He could still play when he left the game. The only thing I can think of is that for such a long time Jimmy was the man that it became hard for him to be second fiddle [alongside Bing and Nate Archibald]."

His career over, Walker settled in Kansas City, and later spent several years in his hometown of Amherst, Va., and in Atlanta. He moved back to Kansas City in 1994 after his daughter, Jamesa Walker-Thompson, was diagnosed with cancer.

"He always told me to be a fighter," says Jamesa, a cancer survivor. "When he got cancer, he used me as an example. He would look at me and say you didn't go anywhere, so I'm not going anywhere."

In Kansas City, much of Walker's time was devoted to programs that aided youth in that city. His passion outside of work was tennis, and Walker spent much of his free time at the 47th Street courts near his home. "Had he chosen tennis over basketball," says longtime friend Sam Dowdy, "he would have been a star there as well."

Then Walker seemingly vanished. Bing lost contact with him. The retired players' association couldn't locate him. "We had guys from the Kings," says Lacey, who last saw Walker in 1989, "who had no idea he stayed in Kansas City."

At Providence, it took 34 years for the school's biggest star to return to campus, when the Friars honored him as a legend in 2001. After a weekend of reliving memories from a great career, he was gone again.

In 2005, as Ryan Gomes was on the verge of breaking Walker's school scoring record, Providence tried to contact Walker with no success. "It was like this mystery," says Providence assistant athletic director Arthur Parks. "Where is Jimmy Walker?"

That question went through Lacey's mind many times. In late June, Lacey, who lives in Mississippi, traveled to Kansas City for the kickoff of a pro-am league. During a game, a man approached with an urgent message: "You need to see Walk."

Entering Room 317 of the Highland Nursing and Rehabilitation Center, Lacey was ill-prepared for what he saw: Walker was doubled over, motionless, his coat stuck over his head and pants just above his knees. Lacey alerted a nurse, who woke up Walker with a nudge.

"His eyes lit up, and we chatted for a long time," Lacey says, explaining Walker communicated by spelling out words because he was unable to speak. "I was looking for some fragments of the old Walk I knew, and instead I see a guy who maybe weighs 115 pounds. I'll tell you, when I walked outside I broke down, I just couldn't hold it."

As Lacey got up to leave during a visit on June 27, Walker's face turned solemn and he grabbed a pen to scribble four letters on a piece of paper: D-E-A-D.

"I told him, 'No way, man,' and by the end of the visit we were laughing," Lacey says. "And when I saw him [on June 29], he was excited. He told me that his family was coming by. And he told me that he was finally going to meet Jalen."

That Rose was Walker's son was widely known. But Dowdy says Walker never discussed Rose until a ride to the tennis courts in early June. "We were in the car, he mentioned that he had spoken to Jalen several times over the years, and then he started crying," Dowdy says. "From there, he spoke about him every other day. There was a real desire to see him."

And everything was in motion for that to happen. Rose, aware of Walker's deteriorating condition, was making plans to visit.

That Friday night, June 29, shortly after Lacey's conversation about Rose, Walker's condition worsened and he was rushed to Truman Medical Center. On the morning of July 2, with his daughter, Naja Walker-Thompson, and her mother, Sandra Thompson, by his side, Jimmy Walker died.

Bing sighs deeply and reflects on Walker and Rose. "Theirs is a legacy that comes very, very seldom," he says. "Jalen told me he wanted to meet Jimmy. Jimmy once told me he wanted to meet Jalen. It's a shame they had to meet like this -- at the end."

But being there at the end was somewhat therapeutic for Rose. Listening to words about his father that were both warm and sincere validated why he wore that Jimmy Walker Pistons throwback jersey on "Rome is Burning" years ago; why he framed those Walker basketball cards fans gave him over the years; and why he quietly idolized a man he could have easily despised.

As he sits back and reflects on the accomplishments of his own career -- one that now hinges on the uncertainties of free agency -- Rose remembers those childhood days when he and other kids would sit on the porch and dream of what they wanted to be.

"Some wanted to be doctors, some wanted to be lawyers," Rose says. "I wanted to be a basketball player, and because of Jimmy, I always knew that I had it in me. He wasn't there, but he inspired me.

"And for that, I'll always be thankful."
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03-15-2011 , 04:09 AM
Touching story.

I had read yesterday that Rose and his father never met but I was yet to investigate the story.

Thanks for posting it.
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03-15-2011 , 10:20 AM
Before watching, I would have guessed that the Runnin' Rebs documentary would be better than the Fab Five one. I figured that the Fab Five has been dissected so much that there would be nothing new to offer, whereas there is alot to dig into on the Rebs. I was wrong. The UNLV doc was fun to watch and remember those teams, but the sepia drenched nostalgia was Ken Burns level at times, and it was ultimately just one of those SI video hagiographies celebrating the glory days.
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03-15-2011 , 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw0586
The outrage over Rose's Grant Hill comments are pretty lol too. It's clear who actually watched the documentary closely. He specifically said he didn't hate Grant Hill because of how he was raised, he just hated that he didn't get that same opportunity. His dad completely abandoned him and left his mom with nothing. I probably would have resented someone in that situation too.

It's a documentary ffs, it's supposed to delve into issues a little deeper. Grant Hill, the Duke mystique, the NCAA and Michigan exploiting them for money... it's all meant to show how difficult the Fab Five's journey was and how different they were from people in seemingly similar situations.
He hedged a little and said he resented the situation in addition to the person, but the topic was how he hated "soft" white players like Latner and Hurley - and "uncle tom" black players like Hill.

There was some irony there too after talking about all the racist hate mail they received - and then to show they - at least Rose - was pretty racist himself.

Last edited by RacersEdge; 03-15-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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03-15-2011 , 12:07 PM
Does Jalen call his own kids uncle toms?
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03-15-2011 , 12:28 PM
In the Simmons podcast, Jalen makes it clear that his feelings towards Grant Hill and Duke were how he felt then as an immature kid, not how he feels now looking back. Anyone who says they probably wouldn't have felt the same way as an 18 year old kid in his position is being disingenuous.
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03-15-2011 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off

- about paying all athletes because these teams make so much money off of the kids, i think the argument is that not all programs make as much money as the mega-schools. and even in those cases, the profits from football or basketball basically subsidize all the sports that don't make any money, women's sports, scholarship programs, other school initiatives, etc. i'm sure some schools are still making a killing, and there's obviously a market to pay Chris Webber, or Reggie Bush, or Cam Newton $200-500k or whatever, but it's probably not practical to pay every players $50k or something (especially on huge football teams).

There are only a handful of athletics programs in the country that MAKE any money at all (Ohio St. is one, Texas another). As said they have to pay for every other sport that loses money. The school isn't just raking in the money. Same thing with the NCAA. They make tons of money on the NCAA Tourney but lose money in every single other Championship they sponsor.

If the NCAA ever allowed paying of players they would never allow some athletes to be paid more. Every athlete in every sport would have to be paid the same amount. Most athletics programs simply wouldn't be able to afford it.

Finally, the people that argue for paying players are really only arguing for a very small percentage of players. The fact is the guys at big time programs get meals paid for, get to stay in very nice hotels, travel all over the country and sometimes the world, work out in some of the best facilities in the world, have trainers and managers that tend to their every need, and they get to play on TV and get treated like celebrities. The really good ones that people say deserve to get paid? Well they will end up getting paid plenty.

I played college basketball on scholarship at a D-2 school. I now coach there. I practiced hard, worked out hard, AND got a summer job so I would have spending money during the school year. Most athletes get a free education and are fine. Paying players is not needed. Want spending money? Get a job.
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03-15-2011 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganballer
Want spending money? Get a job.
That is such bull ****. Their "job" is working many hours a week generating insane amounts of revenue for their institution. You really think a top D1 athlete has time to go to school, work for his school, AND work for himself? Not to mention I'd be pretty ****ing pissed off if I had to work an extra 20 hours a week to get a few hundred bucks when every weekend I perform in front of thousands and thousands of people while millions are watching and my only compensation is the potential to get a meaningless degree and a meal plan. No doubt that a huge majority of scholarship athletes have a great great deal, unfortunately, it's at the expense of the elite athletes who have no choice but to go to a school that they couldn't care less about until they're allowed to actually sell their craft.

Quote:
The really good ones that people say deserve to get paid? Well they will end up getting paid plenty.
Bull **** again. You ever heard of injuries? Especially when you are 19 years old playing the most violent sport ever? Maybe they're not good enough to be a top pro either, that doesn't negate the fact that they're generating a school millions and being compensated little for their work.

Last edited by THAY3R; 03-15-2011 at 02:12 PM.
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03-15-2011 , 02:16 PM
if the men get paid...shouldnt the women be paid as well? title IX says so
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03-15-2011 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganballer
As said they have to pay for every other sport that loses money. The school isn't just raking in the money. Same thing with the NCAA. They make tons of money on the NCAA Tourney but lose money in every single other Championship they sponsor.
You make some good points, but this part just isn't true. They are not required to have other collegiate sports. Instead, they choose to pay for those sports. A good business would never leak money in any unprofitable franchises.

Who would really lose if the Northern Arizona frisbee team were just an intramural bunch anyways?
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03-15-2011 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THAY3R
That is such bull ****. Their "job" is working many hours a week generating insane amounts of revenue for their institution. You really think a top D1 athlete has time to go to school, work for his school, AND work for himself? Not to mention I'd be pretty ****ing pissed off if I had to work an extra 20 hours a week to get a few hundred bucks when every weekend I perform in front of thousands and thousands of people while millions are watching and my only compensation is the potential to get a meaningless degree and a meal plan. No doubt that a huge majority of scholarship athletes have a great great deal, unfortunately, it's at the expense of the elite athletes who have no choice but to go to a school that they couldn't care less about until they're allowed to actually sell their craft.



Bull **** again. You ever heard of injuries? Especially when you are 19 years old playing the most violent sport ever? Maybe they're not good enough to be a top pro either, that doesn't negate the fact that they're generating a school millions and being compensated little for their work.
Basketball players have choices, they just suck (Europe, sitting out a year). NBA is forcing the hand here, not the NCAA. The NBA made the rule and the NCAA is benefiting for it.

I guess the question is how much should some of these athletes get paid and what kind of limits can be made?

99% of the athletes are getting a sick deal (basically the 1% is top flight athletes from D1 programs in men's basketball and football--and maybe the top 0.1% in sports like Baseball, Hockey, Golf). 1% are getting raped. I don't have a problem with the schools paying the athletes but they would probably have to pay 100% of them [which would mean tuition hikes or more expensive tickets for men's basketball and football games].
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03-15-2011 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetto
if the men get paid...shouldnt the women be paid as well? title IX says so
*&@! Title 9
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03-15-2011 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
I guess the question is how much should some of these athletes get paid and what kind of limits can be made?
Whatever the **** you do, do NOT trust the market to decide the prices for a product. A bunch of guys/girls sitting around together should be in charge of musing about the best payment for everyone.

While we're at it, gas is too damn expensive, amirite?
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03-15-2011 , 02:36 PM
For instance what was Cam Newton's worth this year?

How bout Tebow?

Vince Young?

Redick

Hansbrough

Griffin

Rose

Etc.

Paid by performance or up front?
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