this. Bmouth completely on top

absolutely this. this, and refereeing tendencies to let more things go in the first half without a card, is my single biggest irritant in modern football

edit - see also not giving penalties for fouls that result in a FK in the other 90% of the pitch

I think this argument is pretty flawed. What you're doing is suggesting that in the two scenarios you use, it shouldn't be any kind of yellow. Whether it's a first or second is kind of irrelevant.

Just coming back from the eggball so have missed the game, BBC is saying we were great in the first half but aids in the second. Fair?

You should be more careful but like I say if the ref books someone for one of those types of yellow card offences and he then has another yellow card offence. Sending him off there would be super harsh, no? Again if he has a few of those like a totting up process I'd have no complaints if the ref then sent him off as he'd be toeing the line!

That's down to if you give a free kick away in the middle of the park, it's not too bad if there is an error of judgement by the ref, whereas they need to be certain of a foul that will lead to a very high chance of a goal.

CL semi final

Player is one booking away from a suspension. Scores winner in last second to get team through. Takes off shirt in celebration. Gets booked. You against that?

yupp

Pretty against getting booked for taking your shirt off anyway, but if you're stupid enough to do so, enjoy watching the final from home

if he's certain enough that something is a foul on the halfway line, he should be certain enough to give the same thing in the box. sure, the offending team may feel aggrieved at the decision, but if i was a fan of the team that didn't get it given, i'd be equally furious

The flip side is that I think there were some decent critical appraisal from Spurs fans in recent weeks, but opposition (and I mean Plop and Arsenal) fans will still pick one sentence or point and quote it out of context, which is what I did on Saturday. Hopefully, I made my point

I don't think it's unreasonable to say Plop fans are the most deluded (or optimistic, w/e) fans on here. Imagine if they were in Arsenal's position right now? Jesus, it would be unbearable; kudos to the Gooners for providing some objective comments on their recent form and prospects for the season.

WRT Yellow cards, my biggest bug-bear is how after ~70 mins refs start throwing yellow cards around like confetti, and as illustrated with the Mikel and subsequent Lucas incident, then give themselves a difficult decision.

Don't forget about KLOPP KLOPP KLOPP

I find myself persuaded by the argument being made that you shouldn't get more leniency after being booked once. This is certainly true based on the letter of the law. Yellows are all created equal theoretically, and a yellow is yellow no matter when, where, or under what circumstances it occurs.

But refs manage the game differently. Why?

Rules and punishments should start with what they are intended to accomplish. Would you all agree that we want to protect the safety of the players while encouraging a free-flowing game devoid of fouls? If that's the case, I'm not sure what purpose is served by sending off Giroud for yelling + clumsiness. We want a safe, free-flowing match, but what we've done has effectively made Arsenal park the bus and pour cement on the game.

This answers the "why". Refs believe it isn't in the sport's interest to reduce a team to ten men if they can finesse their way around it And because many refs see it this way, there is very often no recompense for the team that has been wronged. The ref has the choice to (A) fundamentally alter the natural flow of the match, or (B) do nothing.

I just wonder if we could get the same deterrent using a punishment that the refs aren't afraid to implement. Because the way it is now, a team like Chelsea usually gets absolutely no recompense for the repeated tactical fouling of Can and Lucas, and Liverpool gets zero recompense for Costa's endangering of their player's health. Might it not be more equitable, and more practically useful, to have punishment that fits the crime in the eyes of the ref, that they are therefore not so hesitant to implement? The ten-minute sin bin is one possibility. A forced substitution would be another (punish the player in the same way as a red; weaken the team but not destroy it; and preserve the free-flowing nature of the match). I'd even rather award a penalty and let the player stay. A goal often is just what a game needs, whereas a sending off his the exact opposite effect.

Just thinking out loud...

Is Mourinhaids gone yet?

Dean,

Can you expand on your points?

(1) If that's the case, and we are probably all guilty of it at one time or another, then responding in kind a week later with no reference to the original beef doesn't seem like a great way to stop it from happening. Maybe if we all try to start taking the high road (and I include myself) we'll get better results.

(2) Again, based on what? I see assertion after assertion and implication after implication to this effect. But based on what? Predictions that maybe we can get fourth? Thinking that maybe Klopp can return us to contention? C'mon. This stuff is so standard for any fans in a similar situation. There's a chicken-or-the-egg element here too. A team's fans get crapped on all year ---> the fans throw it in the people's face when the team comes good. I make this post calling these accusations baseless ---> you go on high alert for any LFC fan using hyperbole in the next week and quote it gleefully. I think if everyone just STFU (and I'll include myself again) and let each other be I think we'd find that fans are largely just fans. (It was nice of you to say a kind word to Arsenal fans, and I'd encourage you to do it again when you don't have an ulterior motive motive.)

The EPL is ****ing fantastic, and everyone here is smart and funny. Let the Era of Good Feelings commence I say....

I'm in this camp.

Red cards should be for violent conduct and dangerous challenges only in my opinion. A median punishment (ie sin bin) could be introduced for getting more than one yellow card offence, as yellow cards are waved around for any old challenge these days.

cynical fouls are already so EV+ though, making yellow cards mean less would only make that worse

Just saw the Everton highlights. In some parts of the world Deulofeu could be stoned in the streets for that dive.

Six goals though, wow.

Sunderland so dire. Who do you guys think are getting relegated? Bournemouth probably couldn't absorb this many injuries with the squad they brought up. Newcastle and Villa have both been gross, again. One way another, one or more pretty big clubs are likely going down.

Just devil's advocate, but maybe you could make the argument that if the punishment wasn't a sending off we'd see a lot more cards. Lucas and Can certainly don't finish the game with only one apiece yesterday for instance.

That being said, my concern with the sin bin idea is what it would do to the flow of the game. Wouldn't the ten man team just park the bus and ride it out unless they were losing and it was extremely late in the game? In hockey it's fine because pinning a team back and raining shots on them is actually exciting, and the short-handed team can only do so much to kill time. But a ten minute break from what had been a very open, exciting game could be a disaster. Think of all the annoying crap players would do to kill time....

"Looking for a teammate to throw it in to......looking for a teammate......looking for a teammate......oh wait, the fullback is slowly trotting over......I'll just drop the ball at my feet and wander away......"

lol

This is really true, cynical fouls + great defending/attacking of set pieces was basically Simeone's grand strategy for winning lol liga back in 2014.

+ running hotter than the sun

Predictions itt you would be challenging for the title before a ball had been kicked. Sure, every set of fans have a right to be optimistic, but most neutrals felt you would be lucky to challenge for top 4.

It's not your fault that some Plop fans are deluded, but deluded they are and it's not a hanging offence to remind fans of these optimistic predictions when it all went tits up after 3 weeks.

that is always good to have in your plans

I wanna be optimistic about midweek Cl vs Bayern but I think arsenal gonna get smashed. Gotta hope for Zagreb to beat oly.