The Rams just beat the number one seed, impressive for a team that's been basically shutdown!

Yes, the vaccine significantly lessens your chance of getting and spreading it, and a few sports teams getting outbreaks does not renounce all other data

This is the typical response when the science is being rope a doped. Never addressing it just insult and deflect. That's not science

Do you think that data needs to be revisited? How many sports teams need to have fully vaccinated outbreaks before its just "a few sports teams getting outbreaks?" I think you're stuck in last years science. It's amazing how people will continuously ignore what's happening right in front of them and make excuses for it.

Again, no it didn't.

It takes a long time to collate, study and publish the data - the studies I've seen and read have data from up to September. Since then we've had a new variant and vaccine efficacy dropping over time, so it likely is getting revisited but we won't have anything other than anecdotal evidence for a little while.

I don't know how many sports teams we need, I don't really follow NBA/NHL but so far you've offered 1/32 NFL teams (no, I'm not counting the Rams) and 4/20 EPL teams (I'll even include Man Utd for you).

If every single athlete was unvaccinated how many teams with outbreaks do you think there'd be?

Lfc must have been shocked every time Aa lost aipf

It told us that it would be extremely rare. My apologies. If you think what's currently happening is extremely rare outbreaks then well

It's really just about reducing hospitalizations and death at this point. That's the only somewhat dependable position the science has at this point (which has its own variables) but this notion of getting vaccinated to protect others is just garbage at this point. If the virus is deadly and the vaccinated are spreading it to the degree that they are (even if you want to roll with they're spreading it "significantly" less than unvaccinated) then why are vaccinated playing sports, going to dinner, packing stadiums, mingling in society, running their in person businesses etc? They're very clearly spreading covid at a significant rate. You can't have it both ways.

Yes because cards are comparable to the human body. It's actually ironic because we are treating the human body like a deck of cards. We're putting 70 year old obese people in the same boat as Aaron Rodgers. Their outcome probability is not the same like a deck of cards.

This is a fair and intelligent post.

I'm not sure how many outbreaks there would be. I dont think we can definitively say one way or another. I will say with the vaccine I don't think the outbreaks we are seeing in fully vaccinated settings raises serious concerns about the efficacy of the vaccine in terms of stopping the spread and preventing an individual from contracting covid.

If we were seeing this same rate of outbreak in unvaccinated teams (which obv don't exist) I think we all know it would be covered and received very very differently. That's the hypocrisy and that's the double standard

Can you cite this?

The outbreaks are largely happening because people are living normal lives. Athletes and normal people have young kids. These kids are still largely unvaccinated, but are back to daycare and schools. People are going to bars, concerts and whatever else.

It's a huge difference from when everything was closed and teams were bubbled.

I just went to the cdc website and man is there a lot of ambiguity on there. It's just so frustrating how it's presented as an absolute by media and governments when basically the cdc is like idk but here's what we think. (This wasn't always the case btw but I get you guys are cool with the science constantly changing)

So you're still pinning all these outbreaks on unvaccinated? You think these sports teams having outbreaks are just Dads getting it from their unvaccinated kids at coincidentally the same time?

Agree people are living normal lives and I'm totally fine with that. We can't ignore that it isn't spreading, and quite rapidly I might add, regardless of vaccine status. Meaning vaccinated people are spreading this as well.

So we are at the point where we either have to decide to live with it and go about our lives or shut everything down again to stop the spread. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not pinning it all on the unvaccinated, but the data is clear that they are more efficient spreaders and most places no longer have communities isolating in any efficient way.

I think there have been very, very few "absolutes" presented by the government. I dont know where you are getting your news from, but "media" shaming is easy when you don't have to provide citations.

So ok you believe being vaccinated doesn’t help reduce the spread of COVID. What are you doing to help reduce the spread, are you wearing masks when going out? Are you avoiding public places, what precautions? Apparently vaccinated people now feel the need to not do anything to stop the spread but not you.

I appreciate this discussion fwiw. For the sake of argument we can go with unvaccinated being more efficient spreaders but I think the margins between them and vaccinated are a lot smaller than we assume. The data is constantly changing. By time we get something concrete we are already 2 phases further along. The degree to which vaccinated people are getting this and spreading this is not insignificant.

As for the second part. I gotta find some archived Dr. David Choksy clips, especially from the beginning of this, when his commercial was run every other commercial during every NY sports game on TV. Stuff like that has been semantics at best misleading at worst. I'll try to find some.

At this point are you ok with opening up and living with the virus? With people having had ample time to get vaccinated if they feel they need it to be protected and accepting full responsibility of their own outcome?

I'm in the camp that if you feel the need to get vaccinated to reduce your chance of hospitalization or death you should do so and have had ample time and opportunity. If you choose not to then that's on you. But now, at this point, we all need to move on and live our lives. The vaccine is available. People are confident it significantly reduces hospitalization and death so that's where we're at. This is never going away completely and we aren't vaccinating our way out of it.

I followed all the rules in the beginning but once they made separate standards for vaccinated and unvaccinated people and we see it spreading amongst both, I knew it wasn't about stopping the spread anymore and I'm comfortable living my life and preparing myself for the virus should I get it again

He's ****ing shredded bro.

It seems you have a problem with nuance. If we stick to sports, they are people who train daily in close proximity without masks with a handful to dozens of other people. They are also with trainers, doctors and coaches. They are in dressing rooms, busses, flights largely unmasked. This is "riskier" behavior then the accountant working from home. It shouldn't surprise you that an outbreak is possible, even among mostly or fully vaccinated people on these situations.

Whether it's the vaccine or your behaviors, it's about reducing risk. Just because you are not vaccinated does not necessarily mean you should stop social distancing, wearing a mask, going to bars etc.
I'll let everyone decide their personal risk and comfort levels, but acting like everything is black and white is causing the anti vaxxers problems. They want the absolute answers and that you can't 100% say how effective a mask is, or a booster or whatever isn't a good argument against them.
An inability to be perfect should not be the enemy of good.

Well yeah wouldn’t you be if you where that insecure. Lucky for him baggy swim shorts on the beach are in style these days.

The irony of this post is quite remarkable. It's possible to have an actual discussion on this. Try to keep up

No you’re so far gone it’s simply not possible.

The outbreaks aren't just in sports settings though. These are just the ones we hear about most because they are tested everyday and their absence is newsworthy because we are the consumer. Most people who are vaccinated aren't even getting tested. Given what we're seeing in these sports teams makes vaccinated people not getting tested seem irresponsible. For events if you're not vaccinated you need to be tested (if you're even allowed to go at all) but if you're vaccinated you don't need to be tested. Again seeing these outbreaks happens makes that seem irresponsible as well.

It's not black and white at all. On either side. There's people who aren't comfortable getting this vaccine. I think we need to accept that and move on. It's not the vaccine = or does not = spread, end of pandemic etc... so at some point we have to learn to live with covid. I'm for getting back to normal.

As for the science you're right about something like masks and boosters. The science says they decrease risk but how much they decrease risk is important. And we either aren't given those answers or the number is ambitious. Which is fine. That's part of informed consent. I'm not shaming anyone who gets 4x vaccinated and wears a mask in their car as long as we're not pushing mandates and they're ostracizing people like Aaron Rodgers and Kyrie because they're not vaccinated. It's not about believing or not believing in science. People smoke. Science says smoking significantly increases your likelihood of death. People are fat. Science says being fat significantly increases your chances of death. Etc... Are those people anti science or science deniers? Live and let live.

It's like talking to a flat earther at this point. I can't believe people are still engaging him.

So you're saying we need to socially distance

I'm personally not in favor of social distancing. I'm in favor of getting back to normal which I think I've stated multiple times. But either way we need to choose either social distance and shut it down to stop the spread or get on with it and take the best measures you can to prepare yourself. I dont know what is so controversial or outrageous about that