http://www.basketball-reference.com/...robinda01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...onealsh01.html

Blocks, Drob > Shaq
Block %, Drob > Shaq

Shaq does have an edge at TRB%.

Superior != marginally better. And the primary point is excluding GOAT players from 92. You want to cherry pick for your side without considering opportunities to improve 92 team.

Do you realize, 1992 doesn't need any help? Or are you really this dense?

Wait, capone might now be saying D-Rob's prime defense > Shaqs?

1992-93 season leaders:

BLOCKS
1. Olajuwon 342
2. Mutumbo 287
3. Shaq 286

TOTAL REBOUNDS
1. Rodman 1,132
2. Shaq 1,122

What? You mean 92 is best possible? Ok, I accept that as 92 > all possible teams. You win, close the thread.

Great, you pick the one season where Shaq's block #s are really high.

As though I would "pick" another season than 92-93? Wow.

ITT we exclude GOAT players from competing because it does not suit our argument, and include guys breaking down and imagining they can all play at their peak. And we compare that to govt. paperwork.

What a shame that the war started in 1991 here in Balkan , because if it didn't this threads tittle would be : 1992 Yugoslavian team vs 2012 USA Men's Bball team...

Why da **** we couldn't waited for 2 more years to start killing each other.

Trolling asaide , IMO it would be a lot more close than it was. Remember Croatia was 2nd on that tournament and they weren't the best NT in Balkan(Serbia was. Add Slovenian and Bosnian players and you have a powerfull team).
Ah found the roster:
Dražen Petrović, Vlade Divac, Toni Kukoč, Žarko Paspalj, Zoran Savić, Velimir Perasović, Jure Zdovc, Zoran Čutura, Željko Obradović, Arijan Komazec, Radisav Ćurčić, Zoran Jovanović

The point is, after that season Shaq's block #s drop to less than 3 per gamefor the rest of his career. Likewise, 6 of the first 7 years of D-rob are above 3. Do you see the problem here? Obviously, you see yourself as always being right. Likewise, the season before the 1992 games, D-rob averaged 4.5 blocks per game, 3.2 in the season in question. You continually give really biased views. And then give some stupid answer like you always do when someone calls out your biasness.

So if you are claiming D Rob is better defender than Shaq I disagree. Even if I am wrong on that specific point it does not materially change my argument. Shaq is clearly one of top 5 GOAT and D Rob is not. And I am not removing D Rob from the team, only adding Shaq as somebody who can play minutes. Same as Olajuwon, except he can play with a center on the court. Rodman can also play with a center on the court. It is not a wash.

jfc this isn't difficult. Would Shaq make DT better? Yes. Very slightly better. Would he add more to the DT than HGH would to 2012? ffs no. DT has two elite centers. David Robinson has a career PER of 26.2 and in 91-92 his PER was 27.5. Robinson and Ewing were the top two defensive players that year going by bref's defensive rating and second and third best defensive going by defensive winshares that year. Howard is such an upgrade over Chandler that I feel like I'm taking crazy pills having to argue this point. No one's arguing Rose and Wade's absence harmed the team because their skills overlap skills the team already has, even though replacing Harden and the brow with those two obv make the team better, but only slightly.

Airtight logic.

The DT didn't even take it that seriously because they knew they'd kill everyone. In the DT special that was on recently, they joked about how MJ never slept and played a ton of golf everyday while treating it like a vacation.

If the DT knew they were playing a team like the 2012 team, things would be completely different. It is moronic to think the stats of a prime MJ in the 1992 Olympics would have any relevancy when looking at how he'd play against the 2012 team. He had just averaged 35-6-6 in the playoffs while leading the Bulls to a title and you think his Olympic stats are indicative of his level of play?

That is absurd. A refutation isn't even needed.

Not as absurd as falling on block totals to try to win a defense argument

In Shaq's rookie season, Ewing was the best defender in the league. He had the highest defensive rating and the most defensive win shares. He had over 33% more defensive win shares than Shaq (8.1 versus 6). Although the point is moot, Robinson had both a higher defensive rating and more defensive win shares than Shaq that year.

He could have argued against Shaq by citing team FT% against and it still wouldn't be as absurd as arguing that rookie Shaq was a better defender than D-Rob in 1992.

As for total win shares, Robinson (fifth) and Ewing (ninth) both had more than Shaq (twelfth).

Soooo, I hope no one keeps arguing that adding a third-string (for the team) rookie center to the DT is somehow better for the DT than adding a healthy HGH to 2012.

Also gonna have to go ahead and lol @ defensive rating

yes, the Spurs were much better defensively as a whole

The argument that D-Rob was a superior defender than Shaq is a rookie is fine and probably correct (although no one arguing it is helping the cause), but to say D-Rob was just a super career defender is pretty ridiculous

Shaq was an all-time great defensive big

Shaq is probably top 10 C defender all time. There are a number of guys better than him at defending though.

Russell
Mutombo
Howard
Kareem
Hakeem
Duncan
Ewing
Robinson?

Not as sure about:

Camby
Wallace
Gilmore?

Bold I think people would have little arguments about.

Howard is better

Has anyone said Robinson was better for his career? I won't try to argue it, but you can make the argument that Robinson (and Ewing) was a better career defender based off defensive win shares, both career and peak numbers.

Anyway, sorting by defensive rating or win shares is better than sorting by blocks. I know putting defensive ability into a single stat is impossible but there are more nuanced stats out there that reflect a lot more than blocks.

Please note I am NOT trying to argue that Robinson was better than Shaq (Even though Robinson's career PER was higher than Shaq's, and Robinson's peak PER was higher than Shaq's). I'm merely arguing that Robinson and Shaq's skills overlap so much that adding Shaq, even adding peak Shaq, doesn't do nearly as much as adding HGH to 2012.