well to be fair im sure he gets a nice discount on his rounds.
did obama ever have the decency to golf at courses he owned?

didnt think so.

In related news, Clorox bleach has a mineral aftertaste that I find off-putting.

This is a fantastic link, thanks.

So Trump agreed to lift sanctions in return for .5 percent of Rosneft and help winning the election.

But muh dots

Wow, no it wasn't.

It was co-opted by Trump after the election, but the term came about long before then when Breitbart and Co were taking wikileak dumps and creating "news" stories about how Podesta attends blood drinking ceremonies and Spirit Cooking, and Pizzagate.

If there really is a video of hookers straight-up peeing on him, that might move the needle. A bit.

But proof that Trump made a deal with Russia to enrich himself? Are you kidding me? That's the kind of **** Trump slappies love most about Trump! He makes deals and takes money, plus he builds oil pipelines. That is the toppiest of top kek.

Close ties to Putin? Man Trump slappies could love Putin even more than Trump. Here is the richest man in the world who rides bare-chested and straight murders his enemies. Fox News was fawning over Putin long before Trump got into politics. **** me, man, you're not taking Trump down by proving that he pals around with super alpha males like Putin and makes million-dollar backroom deals.

The Trump organization has nothing to do with pipelines.

But he's kind of right. You don't want to be ridiculed for your epiphany but you are wrongly arguing what fake news means and calling it something I, personally have never heard before.

Here is one article published by Stanford University I got off the top of google search.

https://web.stanford.edu/~gentzkow/r...h/fakenews.pdf


I realize you are not in America but if you really want to wake up to reality you will have to try harder. You will at least need to question most everything you thought you know. You admit to awaking from a brainwashing but the people who tried to take advantage of you did so with great breadth and depth. You had to buy into all sorts of resources feeding you questionable information for awhile and I don't think you are in a position yet to pick and choose what you carry over.

I realize you want understanding and deference here but if you are going to get your hackles up over every little thing it's just going to monstrously annoying.

Ya, I know but you have to think in terms of word association: Trump + Putin + oil/gas + money hits all the right notes.

If that's what you want just refer to Glenn greenwald

Trump inc may not have built pipelines in the past, but he's big on them now.

The masters of Pence and Ryan built a lot of pipelines. Putin too.

lol it's insane you think the democrats road to redemption is running on policy. It literally means you paid zero attention to the 2016 election.

The president never put forth any logical policy on anything during his campaign and won. He has pretty much put forth no policy since his election. If you think the people who voted for trump will change their minds based on policy you will have to show your work.

As far as I know neither has anything to do with building pipelines.

They are pro-oil for sure.

The left has somehow collectively decided that pipelines represent all oil and gas infrastructure and should be the main target. It's so idiotic, especially given pipelines are the most benign type of oil and gas infrastructure.

DVaut, you're talking about winning elections and you're absolutely right about the best way to do so. But the Russia stuff is about removing Trump from office before 2020, or at least keeping the focus on how corrupt he is to minimize the damage he can do. They're different goals with different timelines and different audiences.

Actions have been taken around every other kind of fossil fuel production and transportation, but it's impossible to erect a settlement blocking a drilling platform in the arctic ocean. Kayakers have briefly blocked drilling platforms, but they aren't staying on their kayaks for months.

And Pence and Ryan are both Koch property and have a lot to do with pipelines.

People are listening. They're concerned about the status of their coverage under ACA and what their status will be with the GOP replacement. There's a finite bandwith of time and attention. Democrats earn their credibility now, not in 2020. Jabbering about Russia while Trump raids the treasury to fund tax cuts for the wealthy and rollsback coverage for tens of millions without a strong, full-throated opposition is a drastic ideological and organizational failure. If you don't remove Trump from office with these tactics, you've wasted precious time and attention. It demonstrates the priorities are all wrong: Democrats are busy waging partisan political battles instead of focused on issues that matter to people.

Offshore production represents a tiny fraction of oil and gas production. There are tens of thousands of onshore wells, not to mention massive oil sands mines. If this has anything to do with stoping production (which is just plain idiotic btw) they would not focus on pipelines.

Sorry but the recent pipeline protests are a case where the environmental lobby is just pushing bad science and terrible policy.

Asking those who hold that position to show their work is fine, but you do too. Just because trump did not campaign on substantive policy and won, does not mean that someone who campaigned against Trump on policy couldn't defeat him with that approach. One just doesn't logically follow the other. You may be right, but you've got more work to show yourself.

You're looking at the trees, not the forest. The entire fossil fuel industry should be obstructed and pipelines are probably the easiest target. They may well be the least offensive element of the system, but they are part of the system and obstructing them in the final analysis will be part of keeping as much fossil fuel in the ground as possible.

Also there's a tremendous difference between policy and outcomes. Should Democrats run on policy, like impressive everyone with their mastery of pedantic wonkery and details that builds into good policy? lolno

Should Democrats messaging be focused on outcomes that are relevant and important to voters? That's not even a question, the answer is of course. Is that the web of Russian connections and a 0.5% stake in Rosneft and the importance of sanctions against Putin, or healthcare?

And remember, Trump was the ULTIMATE outcome-driven politician. He gamed the system by promising the world -- jobs, goodies, the best of everything. He didn't get bogged down in policies -- that's true. But he was highly, highly committed to promising people better things that mattered to them (no taxes, jobs, health care for all). Remember I'm not asking Democrats to straight up just lie and bamboozle everyone, but we're all committed to the idea the government should have progressive taxation and provide things like quality health care to people, right, and that's a great outcome, right?

Showing your work would involve proving Democrats anyone really cares deeply about Trump's Russian ties besides former Bush Administration officials, John McCain/Lindsey Graham, and liberal partisans committed to voting for Democrats for the rest of their lives.

I dvr'd Tucker last night to hate watch because it was a HUGH news day: healthcare, Manfort, Nunes leak, SCt hearings, crack up of the GOP, etc. Turns out he spent the first two big blocks of his show, the first half hour, on an alleged rape an immagrant and immagrant crime generally. It's insane. Like the order had to come down from Rupert himself.

You seem like you're trying to get up to speed, but it's going to take some time and some effort. Maybe read the last 6 months of Dvauts posts and the ny times/wa post daily, follow some respected journalists on twitter.

There is a direct anology between the lefts protests of pipelines and the rights rejection of climate change. Both are based on a rejection of science and pushing really bad policy that ends up hurting far more than it helps.

But Dvaut, what if the investigation uncovers a 45-step link that conclusively proves Trump really was making ****loads of money off oil deals and palling around with international badass Vladimir Putin?

Should Democrats campaign on simple messages like raising the minimum wage, supporting unions, treating health care as a right, making free college education available and having billionaires and giant corporations pay their fair share?