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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

02-04-2017 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
I consider it a good sign the Admin has appealed last night's decision instead of telling the judge to **** off.
I mean, he kinda did both.
02-04-2017 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
I think Trump is a much more effective communicator than he's given credit for. Crystal clear messaging.

You may agree, you may disagree, but you know what he's saying.
He's both sending out the actual contents of the words he's saying, and sending a message to all viewers that thinking itself is suspect and not worth bothering with. After all, it's a new day, and you can't trust the lying media anyway. Better to just trust the leader instead.

Quote:
3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action’s sake. Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Goering’s alleged statement (“When I hear talk of culture I reach for my gun”) to the frequent use of such expressions as “degenerate intellectuals,” “eggheads,” “effete snobs,” “universities are a nest of reds.” The official Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
02-04-2017 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
If I was Trump right now, I would want there to be a terrorist attack.

To the point where I even wonder if Bannon and co wouldn't secretly set one up.

The potential up-side is enormous for them.
That's a most damning indictment of trump, which even at this stage I hope isn't correct.

It's incredibly scary that he doesn't even have to be thinking that way for it to play out along those lines. Events will happen and he will take full advantage of it to blame others and do whatever he can get away with.
02-04-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisGunBGud
Parts of our media really really do suck. If this guy were an athlete his career would be literally over and every sports fan would be in agreement on the piece of **** this guy is. Get it together writers. It really shouldn't be that hard to ruin this man, what are they scared of?
There is a lot of financial incentive to keep the biggest-selling story going. They don't want to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

Last edited by Max Cut; 02-04-2017 at 11:39 AM.
02-04-2017 , 11:24 AM
Evidently Trump cannot get any stay on this order til Monday for whatever reason. Seems likely this judge knew what he was doing allowing a 2 day window for everyone to try and get back in
02-04-2017 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
Alright let's do it your way. Good luck, good luck.
Thanks we will fight him at every turn while you bow down to the biggest threat to global security since Hitler.

I would snap be we will be proud to tell our children our role in 20 years while you will be pretending you had joined our fight.
02-04-2017 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
He's both sending out the actual contents of the words he's saying, and sending a message to all viewers that thinking itself is suspect and not worth bothering with. After all, it's a new day, and you can't trust the lying media anyway. Better to just trust the leader instead.


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
So what should intellectuals do?

Let me tell you what they shouldn't do ... they should not become tribal, they should not give up actually thinking in the name of blind opposition and partisanship.

The moment that someone can predict your position on any given topic is the moment you've stopped thinking.

The current tactics to combat this are not working. The opposition to Trump has become the illiberal mirror to Trump.

That's no good. We MUST be better than that.
02-04-2017 , 11:25 AM
Eco on the early days of fascism under Mussolini:
Quote:
Legislative power became a mere fiction and the executive power (which controlled the judiciary as well as the mass media) directly issued new laws, among them laws calling for preservation of the race (the formal Italian gesture of support for what became the Holocaust).
Sounds strikingly familiar. What comes next is worse though.
Quote:
During those twenty years, the poetry of Montale and other writers associated with the group called the Ermetici was a reaction to the bombastic style of the regime, and these poets were allowed to develop their literary protest from within what was seen as their ivory tower. The mood of the Ermetici poets was exactly the reverse of the fascist cult of optimism and heroism. The regime tolerated their blatant, even though socially imperceptible, dissent because the Fascists simply did not pay attention to such arcane language.

All this does not mean that Italian fascism was tolerant. Gramsci was put in prison until his death; the opposition leaders Giacomo Matteotti and the brothers Rosselli were assassinated; the free press was abolished, the labor unions were dismantled, and political dissenters were confined on remote islands.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/
02-04-2017 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
This is ridiculous hyperbole. Trump isn't Hitler in 1939 and he hasn't just invaded Poland.

Are you sure you aren't exageratting what has happened? Are you sure you have the analysis absolutely spot on here that you are dealing with the coming of the Anti-Christ?

How about calm down for five minutes? The more you get angry, the more you empower him.
I am genuinely concerned that serious, long-term damage is being done to the institutions and ideals of my country that I value most. I do not believe we can afford to sit around, wait 4 years and hope for the best. I will not be calm. I will stay angry. I will stay active.

Your proposed response is passive to the point of cowardice. The end result of that, I believe, is best summed up in The Atlantic's most recent cover story. Apathy and appeasement are the paths to autocracy.
02-04-2017 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
So what should intellectuals do?

Let me tell you what they shouldn't do ... they should not become tribal, they should not give up actually thinking in the name of blind opposition and partisanship.

The moment that someone can predict your position on any given topic is the moment you've stopped thinking.

The current tactics to combat this are not working. The opposition to Trump has become the illiberal mirror to Trump.

That's no good. We MUST be better than that.
You can keep complaining about the pile of **** we're standing in or you can grab a shovel and try to help out.
http://www.contactsenators.com/
02-04-2017 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
Thanks we will fight him at every turn while you bow down to the biggest threat to global security since Hitler.

I would snap be we will be proud to tell our children our role in 20 years while you will be pretending you had joined our fight.

Because virtue signalling to your own children is all that matters?

I live in the real world, I'm afraid, and I have to operate on that basis.
02-04-2017 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
So bend over and grab our ankles? No Mr. Chamberlain, we will not be doing that.
he made some big mistakes but don't forget he used the time to re-arm and he prepared the defences that led to winning the key Battle of Britain.

Churchill gets most of the credit despite faults of his own but he couldn't have done it without Chamberlain groundwork. I sure hope there are some quality people putting everything into organising to win the next election. Battles can be lost along the way but lose that and you might lose the war.
02-04-2017 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I am genuinely concerned that serious, long-term damage is being done to the institutions and ideals of my country that I value most. I do not believe we can afford to sit around, wait 4 years and hope for the best. I will not be calm. I will stay angry. I will stay active.

Your proposed response is passive to the point of cowardice. The end result of that, I believe, is best summed up in The Atlantic's most recent cover story. Apathy and appeasement are the paths to autocracy.
You need both enthusiasm and political activism to have a viable movement. Protests without any political follow through will accomplish nothing and political game without enthusiasm was the Clinton campaign. Combine them both and it should work.
02-04-2017 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711
My Lord.... tape an aspirin to it, son.

Actually, if you do feel that way and are being truthful, you likely should speak to a health professional and maybe spend a little less time with the apoplectic crowd here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj9M34DzAKo
Did posting this make you feel good? No need to answer here, just be honest with yourself. If it did, you might want to run it by a mental health professional, just to be on the safe side.
02-04-2017 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
If I was Trump right now, I would want there to be a terrorist attack.

To the point where I even wonder if Bannon and co wouldn't secretly set one up.

The potential up-side is enormous for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
In the first instance I think you have to pipe down, accept he won, re-group, think about what went wrong, think about how to beat him in four years.
Good day, sir.
02-04-2017 , 11:37 AM
Taking a step back from horrifying global affairs to focus on horrifying domestic affairs we have going on right now:
02-04-2017 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
So what should intellectuals do?

Let me tell you what they shouldn't do ... they should not become tribal, they should not give up actually thinking in the name of blind opposition and partisanship.

The moment that someone can predict your position on any given topic is the moment you've stopped thinking.

The current tactics to combat this are not working. The opposition to Trump has become the illiberal mirror to Trump.

That's no good. We MUST be better than that.


I just want to point out that while you're lecturing us about game theory and playing for the long run, there were:

- a few hundred people, actual human beings, being illegally detained in US airports and

- thousands of additional people who had their lives upended because the plans they had made to come to the US for school, medical treatment, jobs, etc were destroyed with absolutely no warning

These people don't have the luxury of waiting for the next midterm. They needed lawyers to rush to the airports to advise them of their rights and file lawsuits on their behalf. And the lawyers needed the (almost universally nonviolent) protesters to put pressure on the CBP to actually follow the orders.
02-04-2017 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
So what should intellectuals do?

Let me tell you what they shouldn't do ... they should not become tribal, they should not give up actually thinking in the name of blind opposition and partisanship.

The moment that someone can predict your position on any given topic is the moment you've stopped thinking.

The current tactics to combat this are not working. The opposition to Trump has become the illiberal mirror to Trump.

That's no good. We MUST be better than that.
Intellectualism lost decisively. This is an era of populist revolt. I didn't start it, I didn't ask for it, and I don't like it at all. But that is what we now have, and you refuse to recognize the new reality. Intellectualism doesn't have an answer to populism, it sits on the sidelines and waits for the dust to settle.
02-04-2017 , 11:58 AM
I think the only answer is to stop hating the player and start hating the game. At this point, we just have to ****ing win. The challenge is doing it without compromising everything we allegedly stand for.
02-04-2017 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJvK
virtue signalling
This is becoming an incredibly useful shibboleth.

It's sad that it's devolved so quickly, because in and of itself it's a fairly astute description of a lot of behaviours (though it's much more interesting outside of political spheres: dutiful condemnation of selfies, reflexive scorn for CGI in movies etc - these are the interesting and illuminating instances of virtue signalling imo).

Now, any appeal to moral sentiments is 'virtue signalling' - providing it comes from the left. If you can't show that your opponent is wrong, you must claim that he's insincere. Even actions - protests, lawsuits, the prevention of attempted incitement to violence against non-nationals - these are all just 'virtue signalling' and as such need be paid no mind. Of course once it can be used to describe anything, it means nothing, which is a shame.
02-04-2017 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Taking a step back from horrifying global affairs to focus on horrifying domestic affairs we have going on right now:
The rape issue aside, I always thought the abortion issue was a bit one-sided.

How the law in the US is now, from a woman's perspective:

Scenario A: woman gets pregnant. Doesn't want to be a parent and endure a lifelong responsibility and expenses: has abortion.

Scenario B: woman gets pregnant. Wants to be a parent: doesn't have abortion.

How the law in the US is now, from a man's perspective:

Scenario A: woman gets pregnant. Dad wants to be a parent: tough luck, woman has the abortion.

Scenario B: woman gets pregnant. Man doesn't want to be a parent and endure a lifelong responsibility and expenses: tough luck, the woman has the baby.
02-04-2017 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Now, any appeal to moral sentiments is 'virtue signalling' - providing it comes from the left. If you can't show that your opponent is wrong, you must claim that he's insincere. Even actions - protests, lawsuits, the prevention of attempted incitement to violence against non-nationals - these are all just 'virtue signalling' and as such need be paid no mind. Of course once it can be used to describe anything, it means nothing, which is a shame.
The deeper hidden meaning is that in fascism, the only virtue worth striving for is dedication to The Leader and possibly a glorious death in battle fighting for him. Traditional morals and values are put aside because you cannot serve those values and serve The Leader at the same time. You can see that the value of small d democracy is constantly being bashed right now--this is in response to the vast popular vote loss by Trump and the popular reaction to his illegitimacy (for many reasons) and it plays right into the hands of fascism.
02-04-2017 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeroDeniro
snip
Scenario A: woman gets pregnant. Dad wants to be a parent: tough luck, woman is dragged kicking and screaming to a maternity ward to squick out a kid she wanted rid of months ago.

Need I say more?
02-04-2017 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeroDeniro
The rape issue aside, I always thought the abortion issue was a bit one-sided.

How the law in the US is now, from a woman's perspective:

Scenario A: woman gets pregnant. Doesn't want to be a parent and endure a lifelong responsibility and expenses: has abortion.

Scenario B: woman gets pregnant. Wants to be a parent: doesn't have abortion.

How the law in the US is now, from a man's perspective:

Scenario A: woman gets pregnant. Dad wants to be a parent: tough luck, woman has the abortion.

Scenario B: woman gets pregnant. Man doesn't want to be a parent and endure a lifelong responsibility and expenses: tough luck, the woman has the baby.
This may be the most ****ed up post itt. And that's saying something.
02-04-2017 , 12:09 PM
Things that make you copy and paste a raised eyebrow emoji.

Quote:
Senior officials have been soliciting guidance from national security agencies on how to improve relations with Russia, asking what Washington could offer Moscow and what Trump should seek from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Tillerson requested a briefing on moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, one of Trump's campaign promises.

According to one U.S. official, national security aides have sought information about Polish incursions in Belarus, an eyebrow-raising request because little evidence of such activities appears to exist. Poland is among the Eastern European nations worried about Trump's friendlier tone on Russia.
This is ****ing crazy.

      
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