Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize - Page 26 - Politics and Economics

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Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

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12-10-2009 , 07:16 PM

#626

adios

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montius

Well it was....at least to the extent that the Waco incident was.....

Well it could be argued that the Gitmo detainees were not POW status because they did formally belong to a "sovereign entity" declaring war upon the US....but then again, that has little to do with the very real moral or ethical status of the whole mess doesn't it?.....

I believe the Bush admin argument was that Gitmo detainees did not have POW status due to the rules of Geneva Convention. Before we get off on that topic, I've stated many times on this forum that Bush admin tried to have it both ways. When it was convenient to view Gitmo detainees as POWs Bush admin treated them as POWs, when it was convenient to treat them as enemy combatents they were treated as such.

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12-10-2009 , 07:25 PM

#627

Montius

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

What specific rules of the Geneva Convention?

12-10-2009 , 07:27 PM

#628

adios

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montius

What specific rules of the Geneva Convention?

Combatants not in uniform for one.

12-10-2009 , 07:33 PM

#629

Montius

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Combatants not in uniform for one.

Ok but guerrilla fighters are recognized in the protocol.....

12-10-2009 , 07:40 PM

#630

adios

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montius

Ok but guerrilla fighters are recognized in the protocol.....

They're recognized but have different rights. I've also posted many times on this forum that detainees were better off being classified as enemy combatants vs. being classified as POWs due to rules regarding repatriation of POWs and rules regarding how nation detaining combatents need to treat them. Anyway Congress passed a law in 2006 that attempted to clear up how to apply the status of POW vs enemy combatent. This wiki link is pretty good if interested in the topic:

Unlawful Combatent

12-10-2009 , 07:42 PM

#631

Wynton

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Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 15,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Isn't the legal status what this all boils down to?

Yes, as far as I'm concerned; no, as far as Montius is concerned.

I haven't researched the Geneva convention or any other relevant document. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that our old working definitions of "war" don't work that well anymore. (At the same time, I also wouldn't be surprised if they work just fine. I just don't have the info.)

12-10-2009 , 07:43 PM

#632

Montius

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

I'm always interested in the topic. What do you really feel about the whole scenario?

12-10-2009 , 07:49 PM

#633

adios

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montius

I'm always interested in the topic. What do you really feel about the whole scenario?

Pretty much what I said, I think the Bush admin wanted to have it both ways. Under Geneva convention rules I would interpret them to say that they're being held as unlawful combatents and thus should be handled as such. I'm not a fan of Obama admin but Obama admin trying KSM along with other 4 in civillian courts and others in military tribunals seems to be in accordance with rules but I'm not a legal expert (obviously) so could be convinced otherwise. I think it's a bunch of BS that this is intended to show off US legal system but if that's the way they want to go I honestly don't have that big of a problem with it. Let's see how it works out.

12-10-2009 , 07:55 PM

#634

Montius

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Just curious, why do you think that they should be held as unlawful combatants?

12-10-2009 , 08:26 PM

#635

Finurlig

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farfenugen

Hey now, I used to know a Norwegian former service member who claimed the Norwegian SF was one of the most secretive and best in the world. He had nothing nice to say about the Norwegian Rregular army though.

Which Norwegian regular army?

(A senior Norwegian officer recently said that the Norwegian Army was now manned and armed to defend possibly one district of Oslo, the capital.)

12-11-2009 , 03:17 AM

#636

Mempho

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wamy Einehouse

Ignorance is strength.

Priceless...I nearly choked.

12-11-2009 , 03:49 AM

#637

vixticator

clutch

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 117,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimM

This pretty much sums up the accomplishments:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/99945/satu...-obama-address

Wow this is an unbelievably bad impersonation. I find it hard to believe any random person could not do a better job with a week of study. Fail.

12-11-2009 , 04:53 AM

#638

spaceman Bryce

anything you guys want

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,294

I can admit that this
Obama acceptence speech was scary stuff.

12-11-2009 , 07:17 AM

#639

adios

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 22,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montius

Just curious, why do you think that they should be held as unlawful combatants?

Base it on enemy combatent vs. POW as defined by Geneva Convention.

12-11-2009 , 07:45 AM

#640

vixticator

clutch

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 117,339

Any link to video of speech? I fail at the internet.

12-11-2009 , 07:47 AM

#641

ninconvert

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

Any link to video of speech? I fail at the internet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34MG-QaHeI0

12-11-2009 , 08:03 AM

#642

vixticator

clutch

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 117,339

The whole thing?

12-11-2009 , 08:12 AM

#643

ninconvert

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 436

Hmmm, is this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnAR...eature=related

12-11-2009 , 08:14 AM

#644

vixticator

clutch

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 117,339

No, that's not even the right one heh.

Alright think I found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNl83fbJNI

12-11-2009 , 09:33 AM

#645

Le Alexandre

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 756

I stopped listening to the speech after:

"..and distinguished members of the Norwegian Nobel committee".. HAhaahhaahah a couple of socialist politicians
One of the main reasons they gave the great orator the prize was so that they could see him in person and have dinner with him. I honestly, fully, believe so.

12-12-2009 , 07:42 PM

#646

fatshaft

token Scotsman

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

I admit I now roll my eyes when I hear stuff like this:

"We can admit the intractability of deprivation, and still strive for dignity."

what in the **** is that even supposed to mean?

12-12-2009 , 07:59 PM

#647

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,798

Quote:

Originally Posted by adios

Serious questions, how would you characterized 9/11 attacks on WTCs, Pentagon, and on Capital or White House (thwarted of course)? It's a crime of course as I suppose the attack on Pearl Harbor was a crime too. Can an act of war only occur between two sovereign nations? BTW this isn't a loaded question as I'm not sure myself how to characterize attacks like 9/11.

It gets even more muddled. What would you call Iran's actions supporting the insurgency in Iraq with material and training? War by proxy vs. the US/Maliki government?