The first thing a man should be looking at here is how to protect the women in his life from enduring a similar ordeal. That's going to involve a conversation about avoiding dangerous situations in general and not getting so intoxicated that this situation can happen.

You aren't going to educate rape out of the culture. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get the message out, but the "NO MEANS NO" campaign has been out for a long time now. It's pretty clear. It's also pretty well known at this point that you can't have sex with people you know aren't competent to consent to it.

FYP

Anyway, I think people in this thread seem to be implying that because a person is a lawyer they are automatically smarter than us. My mother, father, and one of my aunts work in the legal field. I worked as an intern for a law firm with multiple partners. I can assure you that there are posters here who are miles smarter than some of the lawyers that I have met.

culs is right that these issues can get heated, but that's only the case if a person goes against the majority. In this case, the majority lays none of the blame on the victim. Meanwhile, culs keep hinting at the idea that it may not be entirely the criminal's fault which is complete ****.

He posted about waiting for his bar results. Don't think he has ever made the 90% claim before. The date of his post matches up perfectly with when bar results are released - although he could have researched that pretty easily.

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/show...0&fpart=1&vc=1

Not determined and indeterminable.

I caught 10 minutes of the 20/20 thing last night, and missed the part about how much she drank, but apparently vomited multiple times at three houses and on a street and in a car. Multiple adults saw this and drunk teenagers in their houses, with no reaction to speak of, evidently, including when someone was offering $3 to anyone who would urinate on her when she was lying on the street after she threw up on herself.

The convict being interviewed, hilariously, claimed that he had no indication that she was drunk. None whatsoever. Sure, he saw her hurl all those times, but that sort of thing happens to everybody all the time. Like, pretty much constantly everywhere. So really, nobody would have thought anything of it. Good stuff, and you can tell he's taking this all quite seriously now.

I'm not really following why the adults who were around are not being prosecuted for something like negligence or endangerment or at least vilified more. I mean, someone's house had football players carrying a passed out girl down into their basement in the middle of the night. And this was the 3rd house they'd been at.

Culs, let's set aside talk of how the passed out girl could have made a better decision for a second; you've said the actions of a few teens should not indict a town, but what about these adults we now see were involved? Also, I thought you'd said there were no parties at a coach's house, but when I tuned in the players and victim were leaving a party at the *assistant* coach's house and she was already intoxicated, along with several others, although the coach said he "didn't" observe any teens who'd been drinking, even after she'd thrown up at his place. Am I missing anything?

Man, there is nothing hotter to me than a girl puking her brains out.

Sure, sometimes girls wear short skirts and high heels and really make themselves rape material. But I'm usually able to control myself until they start puking everywhere. After that...mmm...all bets are off.

Hmm...I don't see how this doesn't greatly reduce the likelihood of my theory. I guess it's possible he failed the bar and had a psychic break around that time, but that seems an unlikely sequence to be followed by 9 years of maintenance. Darn, so much mental effort to remove such suspicions from my interpretations of a person. Best to bite the bullet though.

That's her fault, tho. I mean, everyone knows that hurling repeatedly makes men incapable of controlling their baser urges.

Frankly I'm shocked she wasn't charged with solicitation or something.

The adult at the first party is not a coach afaik and the party was thrown by his younger sister who is a senior at the Steubenville catholic school. The only other adults were the ones at house 2 who threw out the drunk teens. I do believe the "coach" At the first party was more involved in drinking than he lets on.

When this all dies down some more I will give up my identity and my involvement in this case if people still care... But I've told you that I haven't been sincere in all my posts here. I did use this board as a dry run a little bit here and there. So if I'm forever going to be branded a rape apologist then I will probably just as soon not throw out my real name

I guess I don't understand who the assistant "coach" is. Is it like where you have the local homeless person called "Senator" or something?

I find saying the adults at house 2 "threw them out" to be a bit charitable, since they essentially just made the group of drunken teenagers drive somewhere else (quite possibly just so they could get some sleep) and watched as the girl vomited on herself and fell in the street and her friends seriously considered urinating on her for a $3 reward right in front of their house. I'm pretty indifferent to other people's welfare and all, but after a few minutes of that I'd probably develope enough fear of this girl dying of alcohol poisoning (hence, my getting sued) or getting violated in some way by the group of morons she's with (hence, my feeling bad and maybe getting sued) that I would at least call the cops on the scene in front of my house, if not take the extraordinary step of driving the train wreck to her house.

So there was no one at the third house overnight? How does that unlikely thing happen?

As someone else said (skunkworks I think) certain words are really causing this discussion to spiral into a sarcastic poo fling contest. "Blame" is definitely one of them. I think there are at least three situations being discussed as well: what should happen under law, the society in which we live, the society in which we should live. These are all interesting to discuss but it's important to be precise as to what we are referring when writing something on this topic. Also, if someone is expressing some horrible idea (just in general, not talking about anyone here) then the best way to change his or her mind isn't to attack the person but the idea.

In the Steubenville case, the girl (or anyone) should never have to worry about being taken advantage of in a perfect world but more to the point it doesn't seem like she had any reason to think she would - not in the slightest. She was with a large group of friends having a good time. Perhaps some are arguing that if it were the case that she hung out with convicted rapists and decided to drink with them then it would have been a poor decision on her part but it doesn't seem anywhere close to that.

This was also a great point:
Bad things can happen to anyone while drunk and we should all be careful of the things we might do and the people around us if we drink. That's true for so many reasons and potential rape isn't the only reason by a long shot.

Because that's what good lawyers do. They go on gambling internet forums to practice their "legal game".

It's just funny that you're branded (rightfully so) a rape apologist and all of a sudden it's "Oh, I was just kidding. I wasn't being honest at all!"

Also, it won't be hard to find out who you are. You've left more than enough clues for a motivated person with too much time on their hands to figure out your identity if somebody hasn't already done it.

I'm sure it would be easy for someone to track me down if they wanted to. But if someone cares that much, I really would do it myself.

THEN WHAT'S WITH ALL THE VICTIM BASHING AND SLUT SHAMING YOU ****ING **** -- if you don't connect her gangbangs and awful family to the rape, you're bringing them up because what, you're just a terrible human being?

After watching the 20/20 special... how come the parents at Party #2 didn't get in serious trouble for saying, 'anyone not spending the night has to leave now.' ... essentially kicking out drunk minors after providing them with alcohol.

I didn't like the 20/20 interview, he was full of ****.

I agree, I thought they tried to hard to present the players as victims.

The parents saying how there kids are actually great kids etc is the problem. No your kids are not great, they are ****ing criminals, and you need to do a better job teaching them good values and less time worrying about their ****ing football skills.

How do people not think getting super drunk blackout drunk is not fairly standard for at least 1 girl to do at a high school party, I remember a few occasions of having to carry a girl to the car to her house, never occured to me to finger her as well.

Pretty sure most people, irrespective of gender, have been there.

Steubenville, Ohio - Where you don't need a reason to rape, you need a reason NOT to rape. (Like having a high school football game to be at Ldo)

yea I shouldn't have said girls both sexes get stupid drunk all the time in high school, me included.

Well I mean come on, there really are no good reasons NOT to rape other than getting caught, right? I mean she wasn't even conscious, it's not like she can remember it and be traumatized.

That is true, never thought about that. If you rape a tree in a forest and nobody hears is it rape.

Obviously some sort of innate right or wrong or social mores are going to stop it. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a month, in Steubenville, dedicated to sexual assault training.

Your country has had laws against most forms of sex for hundreds of years, and still does... so, at least that long?

This thread is kind of confounding to me.

It's just a fact that some actions a girl takes can make it more likely that she gets raped. It's also a fact that nobody deserves to be raped.

Some posters (mostly the female ones it seems) appear to conclude that anyone who mentions the girl's actions also believes that the girl deserved to be raped. I don't know what's going on in their heads.

I'm not sure if we are accomplishing anything by having a mud-slinging screaming match.

Take markksman for example. He/she is just making things up, attributing them to culs and then badmouthing culs on that basis. How does that help prevent future rapes?

Lawl what have I made up.

Feel free to throw your hat in with culs who is an idiot. Good luck with that. He has tried the same dumb approach that your are trying now which is to claim people are too emotional when discussing the issue.

Lol rapists be wanting rape.