this image perfectly summarizes the image that went through my head

there's nothing wrong with being a teetotaler, but when you phrase it like that, it just makes you seem like a miserable prick

i have many sober friends who still regularly go to bars with us and drink things like tonic water - think of it as a social point not as a drinking station

if it comes up naturally then yeah but don't put out negative vibes, especially during the most difficult conversion stage of transferring chat to meeting in person

when i first got divorced, i felt like I should disclose divorced as soon as possible to just get it out of the way and it only ever made things unnecessarily harder

she wants to suck your dick, not waterboard you with whiskey, just go and meet up and when you order just casually mention you don't drink

To be fair to Rob I think his point was that you can still find things to drink at places that don't seem ideal for a teetotaller on the surface.

Not a teetotaller, but I would go along with the bar, get the first round in, have a soda water or something and she probably won't even ask. If she does, just casually say I'm off the booze right now. If she offers to get a round in just keep it honest, and light.

I have a go-to bar because of the atmosphere, not because everyone is expected to get wasted there.

Although I invariably do get wasted there.

agree with this. Probably more likely it ends up being just that one round, but that's fine for a first meeting unless you're really trying to get laid that night.

I'm searching for feedback.

Since the start of the year, I've been on approximately 7 first dates with girls I've met from Bumble. I'm 34, my profile lists me as a nurse (which I feel is a very marketable profession to have), and all my matches have been late 20's/early 30's professional types.

I feel like I do a good job building a texting rapport. I ask questions to get them talking, I talk about myself and my hobbies, and go for the number-close.

When I meet them in person, it's a little tense at first, kinda like a job interview. But conversation flows, I open up, and she opens up, and I feel like it's generally going well. Sometimes I get a good night kiss, sometimes I don't.

When I follow up afterward, they basically tell me they had a nice time meeting me, but they aren't interested.

Minus 1 date that was a disaster on both sides, that's like 6 dates where I had thought things went well, but they signalled to me afterwards that they aren't interested. Clearly something's wrong with my approach... or how I evaluate how things are going.

I'm trying to play the numbers, but the sample size is now making me question my results.

I'm searching for actionable, constructive criticism.

Could be any # of things, some ideas that come to mind:

1) Take more risks creating a fun/flirty vibe

If the date feels too much like a job interview, the girl might feel like she's just chatting with a friend rather than out with a guy she has romantic/sexual interest in.

2) Keep the dates short and sweet

When I had a lot less experience and I was enjoying a convo with a girl, I would just chat and chat and chat. Some dates I realized we'd been chatting for 4-5 hours in the same bar. If I'm on a date and I feel like I won't be taking her home later on I think it's best to "keep them wanting more" and cut the date short while things are going well. Maybe after 60-90 minutes. Dragging the date on can cause a lot of momentum to be lost by the end.

3) Change venues often or do something more fun

I'm of the belief that changing venues and checking out 2-3 different places can create more of a connection and make it feel like more of an adventure. I remember reading somewhere that having memories with a person in 3-4 different places creates a stronger bond even if the total duration with them was only a couple hours.

4) Possible issues with physical escalation

If there isn't enough before the kiss or it isn't coming off as natural then it could be part of the problem.

5) Possible disconnect with the way you portray yourself in your profile and how you are in real life

Maybe your pics are a bit different than how you look in real life or you come off much different in person than in your profile. For example, in my profile I would never include pics where I look like I'm a social butterfly, heavy drinker, or life of the party type. I think my profile accurately portrays that I'm more pensive, witty, intelligent, but I'm never gonna take over a room with a big personality.

6) Could be just negative variance

Even if you're doing most things well there are often peaks and valleys in online dating. Maybe she really liked you but got back together with an ex or met some other guy last week. There are a myriad of reasons why she might not want a 2nd date, many of which have nothing to do with you.

Anyway, those are just some general things that come to mind.

TJ, these are obviously not intended for you to answer here publicly, just something to maybe consider privately.

1. How are you dressing? Shoes? Collared or polo shirt? Can;t emphasize clothing choices enough.

2. What shows up when she googles your name? What do you do to reinforce the good things she'll see or compensate for anything bad or if nothing shows up (which in itself is no bueno)

3. Are you doing anything to casually imply a mastery at something? IE if she asks about work are you talking about it positively or just with "Thank god it's Friday" type response? Just try to keep it to an area you excel at. Like if you choose the location and you go with a bar, don't take her to a place with pool tables if you suck at pool because she might want to play. Wait a few dates before you show her your horrible pool game.

4. Agree with location choices and timing fossilkid spoke of. Also agree with the kiss part, unless she's initiating physical contact then I try to hedge away from that.

5. Are you using accurate photos?

6. Are you over 6 feet tall? If no, are these women tall? If you're not and they are tall, they're probably just running through the motions at that point anyway.

7. The texting stage and transferring that to a date is the most difficult part of it all. I also wouldn't worry too much about 7 dates, it's definitely a sign to think about things but nothing to lose sleep over.

I wish we could combine forces, I always say something dumb and lose them before we ever meet. I distinctly remember as a senior in college I thought it was really witty to ask these girls at a bar me and my buddy were flirting with what their favorite wendy's dollar menu item was. Later that night when they were in the bathroom, he tapped me on the shoulder and said, Adam, maybe you should just try being the quiet guy and mysterious guy from now on. Best advice I was ever given my entire life.

I'm now 36 and still being the quiet guy, doesn't work so well for the chatting part of the app though.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

This dovetails with things I've asked you about in the past, about how to physically escalate from pleasant conversation without seeming creepy or too forward.

I've decided I need at least one wink, shoulder touch, and high five mid-conversation every 15-20 minutes, lol.

I hadn't considered this. I'm good at making generally positive pleasant conversation, but I think I suffer from letting it go stale and losing momentum.

The last date I went on, we nursed 2 drinks each with cheese dip before we bounced for ice cream, watched the sunset, and went on our way, for a total of about 2.5 hours spent on the date.

Maybe if I'd had cut it short, it would have been a better outcome.

I (still) feel I struggle the most with this. In my mind, there's a fine line between physical escalation and being creepy or overbearing.

I try to use arm touching to emphasize points... I hold hands on the walk to the ice cream joint...

I agree that just diving in for a good night kiss isn't a great look if there isn't any tension built up.

What I struggle with is actionable ways to escalate physical tension, without coming off as creepy.

My profile picture is cropped just me at a wedding, me DJ'ing... which was a previous fun career, me in a Falcons jersey at a bar with my sister, me graduating nursing school, and my (dead) dog.

I agree variance happens. In a way, I feel like it's kind of a setup, because I'm an early 30's professional, seeking the same... and when we finally meet there's the "who's qualifying who here?" vibe.

What irks me is that when I go on dates, it seems like conversation flows naturally, but when I follow up after the first date, they aren't interested in pursuing further.

That's what makes me want to (over) analyze my approach.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, it's definitely a lot to think about, and attempt to incorporate going forward.

Nothing overbearing, usually a solid color polo/golf shirt and khaki or cargo shorts... It's hot in Atlanta in the summer!

I don't usually get to the "sharing last name" stage, but I just googled my name and apparently there's a neurologist MD in New York with my exact same name hogging all the hits, lol

It's actually just the opposite... I really wandered through my 20's with poker and other gigs, and went back to school for nursing recently, and really love what I do now, I finally feel like I've found the career I belong in.

Hahaha I'm not now, but I've been in pool leagues for years, I feel like that especially is a great opportunity to show off

I think I may have been just talking for a while and then diving in for a kiss at the end because it's expected. I will admit I haven't gotten a lot of reciprocal physicality from her before I go for a kiss at the end, which might be needed.

Yep... in fact, the last date I went on, I snapped a picture from a wedding I was attending the week before we actually met up.

Again, I don't know how I'm not utterly slaying the punani with my selfless, secure job and being 6'4. My profile simply says:

"I'm willing to lie to your parents and say we met at Whole Foods."

"Legit 6'4, if that matters to you."

See this is where I disagree. I find the matching/texting to be the EASIEST part.

Just swipe for 30-60 minutes every couple of days. The matches will come.

So you match. Look through their profile to find something to ask them about.

The key is, in every response you make, reveal something about yourself... or ask them about something they allude to.

It's a numbers game.

You might be surprised with the things they key in on, or ask you about, and that's how you make conversation. Talk about work, where you're from, where you grew up, whatever... just build rapport.

Then ask for their number and take it to texts from there, with the ultimate goal of setting up a date.

This is the part I feel like I have no problem with.

I guess by our powers combined we could become Captain Planet!

yeah man, i notice you didn't mention the shoes, this is a really, really big deal to them. Doesn't need to be alligator or italian leather but just a pair of dr martens (maybe too hot in atl for that), the new england snob in me enjoys wearing boat shoes and I've actually had women initiate flirting with me at a bar because of my shoes - these aren't fancy shoes either, cost the same as nikes - never spent any time down south but up east or in cali boat shoes do wonders

sounds like you really got the talking part down, I wish I had that skill, it's tough enough to communicate well in person and over the app my personality can translate to stupid or creepy at times. In person though I do very well being pretty relaxed about everything and smiling and looking pretty.

also, another thing i failed to mention and not sure how to do mention it because I'm totally inventing scenarios here... but... I think you may be coming off as a little too nervous/desperate. I got that from you mentioning being nervous and also seeming to imply that of those 7 dates, they were all acceptable.

If you're down for 7/7 dates and nervous then they may get some kind of impression that they would be doing you a favor when you kind of want to make it seem more like a mutual audition. I don't know how to phrase it without sounding like a mysogyinistic ******* but you get the idea. Surely some of those women had some things about them that you realized you didn't like after meeting in person right?

Honestly though, I wouldn't sweat it, you have a solid career and are tall and that's really like 90% of the battle at our age if we're being honest. I would just be more relaxed and try to frame it more as them trying to impress you than the other way around. You can date younger, they can't, the dynamics are dramatically in your favor.

Edit: See above for why I should be the quiet guy

Double edit: maybe things are different down there but that's a hard veto to cargo shorts. I love cargo shorts, I'm speaking from first hand experience. A good trick to choosing clothes is literally to google them. If you google cargo shorts, the average model is wearing a tshirt and will have accessories like a skateboard and backpack, model usually a teen too. Google khakis and it's adult men in collared shirt - that's the image you want to embrace.

I guess I've never lived in a super hot climate, so can't say for sure, but I'd think linen pants with nice shoes could be doable and a big upgrade.

TJ, are you funny/witty? Or quick with your words about observations? This might be my strong point, and I often find that my dates when I get them are hanging onto my words when I'm talking. I often find a humourous twist on things so it's easy for me to make boring conversations interesting. If you're not quick-witted it's a hard skill to learn but it's not impossible. I would think of some pre-planned humourous things to say for when the conversations seem like a "job interview", even if they are on the corny side.

Don’t tell them too much about yourself. Ask them lots of questions and get them talking, and when they ask you questions about you, be light, be airy, and deflect them. Maybe you’re too much of an open book and they feel like they know everything about you after the date and there’s no reason to open it again. Women want a mystery, they want to chase something, they don’t want a big boring book lying at their feet.

First off, do not high-five adult women. And keep winking in deep reserve. But yes, you need more friendly touching and escalation. Hand holding is a great start, then if you can touch her shoulders without her reacting negatively by the end of the date you should be able to stroke her hair/nape of her neck, outside of her thighs if you're sitting close.

Dates seem too long for a first date keep it to 60-90 unless the vibe is outstanding. Venue change as well as others said.

Can't impress enough of the above - do not wear cargo shorts on a date. Dress better. Nice shoes are really really key to your target market. Only wear boat shoes if they're the kind of women that see themselves with that kind of guy. That puts out a certain vibe just like drinking red wine vs bourbon vs Budweiser puts you in a certain category.

Dress better than every other 30s guy in khakis and polo. The joy of living in a hot area like Atlanta as a man in the summer is there is plenty of linen and seersucker for you to wear. Having lived in TX and FL I feel your pain on that front.

I agree with you that texting is a #s game, but don't overtext. It should be short and sweet until after you've actually met in person on a date. Don't overshare your day, talk about work, the weather, you know - boring stuff. Women definitely crave a mystery man.

You're tall, but are you in good shape or more doughy? How is your posture, are you stooping and hunching to get closer to them?

It's totally possible it's just negative variance but I doubt it - we can all improve and if you do look like your pictures there's probably some easy solutions that have been mentioned here.

I'm guessing you are "boring" in your first date conversation. Drinks, ice cream, and sunset should result in you ****ing in the back of your car. It's a great date with lots of movement. Elbow, lower back, upper arm, upper back, into hugs and etc is the natural progression of keno.

I got this line from a poster here a decade ago and it's still ****ing gold. The first thing I typically say on a date is, "Wow, that (dress/pair of boots/blouse/etc) is very becoming on you... Of course if I was on you I'd be cumming too". 95/100 times it kills.

Another good line you can use as a nurse is, "Most people assume that muscles are perfect. This isn't true though. For example, the glutes can operate at 25% more efficiently when held in my hands" then pick her up by the butt. Obviously only if you've already established some familiarity.

Multiple locations is a powerful tool. As fossil was saying, it's about adventure and memories. It also comes across like 2 or 3 dates in one and can break through the "withholds sex for a few dates" crowd in one night.

If you have a little sister or brother, try to tease like you would them. Subordinate frame. Keeps it light hearted and puts you in a position of power. My typical first date is some combination of drinks and bowling. I'm not great at bowling, but I'm good enough to generally never lose. I make fun of them the whole time, while being genuinely happy when they do well. You can initiate a lot of body contact through high fives and putting your arm around their shoulder as you talk ****.

There are tons of resources out there. Redpill has a lot of terrible ****, but has some basics guides that are actually fantastic. Sounds like you need to touch up on the basics. I'd recommend asking Google, or digging through the sidebar on redpill

When I didn't immediately reply to her text about how she was thinking about sending me nudes of her dripping wet, she sent an angry follow-up something like 'forget it.' When I did reply saying I enjoyed her clothed photos I got a 'Thanks!' I have not bothered contacting her again. I have no interest in a woman who thinks I look at my phone every 3 minutes to see if some desperate thot I've never met has texted, particularly when it's a weekend night and I'm out with friends.

I'd have loved to TR this one for the price of 1/2 drinks just to get her story and share but seems not to be.

"No one's gotten a hand job in cargo shorts since nam"

nsis

I see your 10 gallon hat and bolo tie and raise with pink shorts.

Boat shoes (without socks) and pink khaki shorts with a form fitting polo (or looser collared shirt if out of shape) is the height of masculinity in Massachusetts.

Toss in a light blazer and swap to chinos if it's a bit cold and your set :)

I really love seersucker and linen but it's hard to pull off seersucker up north without drawing a lot of "is that seersucker?" questions all day

My messages usually have me suggesting they come make out with me at work within 5 or 6 messages so maybe we just have different strategies. My goal is to be polarizing and suss out my demo asap

i see. makes sense then.

There is a lot of really good advice here. Hopefully it works for you. What is “nsis”?

"Not sure if serious" I think. And good lord I hope he isn't.

Unless specifically talking about the pickup line suggestions... in trying to keep things here positive, why don't you constructively point out your own thoughts instead of just tossing out vague disapproval?

His posts are like something off the Rooshv forum, if they're even serious. Not going to be helpful for the vast majority of people seeking advice in this thread.