No problemo duderino, some good, updated insight into the situation...
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whi...ny-revaluation

have you guys been following GATA and the CFTC hearings, and the whistle blower coming out and saying that JP Morgan manipulates the PM markets... and that there is roughly one ounce of real gold and silver for every 100oz of paper gold and silver that is traded in the futures market?

------------------------------

http://www.kingworldnews.com

CFTC whistleblower Maguire, GATA's Douglas interviewed by King World News
8:45a ET Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold (and Silver):

London metals trader and CFTC whistleblower Andrew Maguire was interviewed with GATA board member Adrian Douglas for 40 minutes Tuesday by Eric King of King World News. Maguire explained how he came to complain to the CFTC about silver market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase traders in London and then to Douglas when the CFTC failed to call him to testify at its hearing last week on futures trading in the metals market. You can listen to the interview at the King World News Internet site here:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingwor..._Douglass.html

[mp3 is the purple man icon, under where it says MP3 NOT for redistribution]

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

It's admitted to the CFTC: London gold market is a Ponzi scheme
Submitted by cpowell on Sun, 2010-03-28 05:19. Section: Documentation
By Adrian Douglas
Sunday, March 28, 2010

The bombshell GATA dropped at the public hearing held by the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission on futures trading in metals was stunning. Video of GATA Chairman Bill Murphy revealing a whistleblower source who warned the CFTC's Enforcement Division about market manipulation by JPMorganChase and witnessed JPM traders bragging of their exploits can be viewed here:

YouTube - Bill Murphy of GATA Speaks to CFTC

YouTube - Bill Murphy of GATA Reveals Whistle-Blower in Gold Price Suppression

Murphy explained that even though the Enforcement Division received detailed information about it in December 2009, the manipulation continues unabated, as can be seen by the way gold was taken down last week to rob holders of April gold call options in the strike range of $1,100-$1,150 as the hammering made the options expire worthless.

GATA believes that this new evidence will prove to be a "smoking gun," a watershed event in liberating the gold market from price suppression.

Follow up interview with GATA people on King World News
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingwor...3/31_GATA.html

------------------------------------------------------------
also... Eric King from King World News will be interviewing John Williams from shadowstats.com and Peter Schiff this coming weekend. So make sure to check back for those interviews. There are also plenty of other good recent interviews in the archive from people like Eric Sprott, Judge Andrew J. Napolitano, Jim Rogers and Jim Rickards

All over it. JR especially.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11...0/index98.html
Econ Sub Forum.

I figured it wouldn't get much attention here.

it would probably be a good idea to buy more gold and silver tomorrow before the long weekend. because if this story gains more traction over the weekend, there is the possibility for a big spike up on monday morning. also, if anything was going to happen as a result of this, they sometimes like to take action on long weekends so that the big moves take place when the market is closed and people have time to digest the news rather than being surprised by it when the markets are still trading. the same sort of reason why they always announce bank failures on friday after the markets have closed, when not as many people are paying attention anymore.

and even if we don't get a big move up on monday, it's never a bad idea to own more gold and silver anyways and the price will probably still go higher from here irregardless of this news.

I bought CEF. You guys convinced me after a lot of reading and thinking. The US debt is just insurmountable.

I don't think this story is getting out to everyone, no majors have given it any substantial coverage, that I have seen, just the upper echelon web sources. If I thought it would move the market I take a bigger position, but it seems more like a another cobblestone in the wall of decoupling between physical and synthetic valuation.

Yes gold and silver will trend higher (absent some unforeseen crash in equities), and probably will do so for five years or more. I have the majority of my gold position acquired at just over $600, and average silver position of about 12.50 (not including the little stuff along the way), so my powder is dry and I am looking for other opportunities (treasuries and energy) and always looking for the right mining companies.

awesome. good decision. just don't let yourself get shaken out of the market. for a true believer like myself, there is no amount that gold and silver could fall to make me sell (not that i think it's going to fall much from here)... but if it did fall a lot, i would actually be very happy because then i would buy more.

it's still making its way around the internet, even though the mainstream media has not covered it.... i think there are some peopple in the know who have heard about it by now.

all it takes is one billionaire to say, "give me 50,000,000 oz of silver" and it's game over.... and there are plenty of people with a spare billion to throw around.

EDIT: I just wanted some fred astaire looking sh** and this is what I got...


I think the Ag is pretty much spoken for.

got a dumb commodity question here. I know the US gets most of its oil from Canada right. Does it come directly from Canada?

And I remember from one of my economics classes that the middle east essentially has the oil market as a cartel. Does all oil ship from there? I don't see how they are a cartel.

yes... the United States get a lot of its oil directly from Canada (more than any other single country). It comes mostly from a province called Alberta, which is on the west coast (British Columbia is the most Western provice, and Alberta is the next one in).

The US also obviously produces a lot of oil in Texas and Alaska... they also get some from Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria... and the rest is made up from the Middle East (+ they import little bits from a bunch of other countries).

here is the list:

http://tonto.eia.*******v/dnav/pet/pe...im0_mbbl_m.htm

but the US imports more oil from OPEC (the oil cartel) than they do from Canada... but OPEC includes countries like Venezuela and Nigera that are not in the Middle East.

You mean like the Hunt Brothers? They would never allow such things to happen.

http://www.cftc.gov/files/opa/press0...lverletter.pdf
2004 CFTC
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122231175151874367.html
2008 CFTC
Let's see if the CFTC is serious.
http://themarketoracle.biz/index.php...icle&sid=18386
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-89838712.html
http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blo...g-is-old-news/

gold has been up every single day since the Andrew Maguire wistleblower interview was released last wednesday.

gold also making new all time highs in Euros this week.

gold even went up today despite a rising US dollar index and a falling stock market and falling oil prices. looks like gold is making a push to re-test and hopefully break out over the old highs just above $1200

silver also touched 18.25 today.

Gold over £753 and Silver at around £11.9

Glad I invested a chunk. I believe the real moves hasn't started yet.

The reason I don't buy silver or gold is there is an assets tax on it. You buy gold at say $1000 and in 5 years it goes to $2000, due to budget deficits. First you are going to have to pay an ebay or broker fee to buy and sell say 1%. Then you are going to pay a capital gains tax of 35%. Thus you will lose purchasing power of about 1% a year along with a 5% front and back end load.

All currencies are a waste of time as no country has a 20 year history of balanced budgets.

Thx for copying and pasting this garbage from your thread in econ.

You spend an hour a day saying taxes are the only way to prosperity, but you don't want to pay any... ok.



You don't know what you are talking about steel, it's 28%.

There is a spread when buying, but you can also get a very low premium or get physical below the spot price.

Regardless, this is poor reasoning.

(Exp.) I have great insight on a company who is about to benefit from legislation I am sure will pass, based on current trends. I stand to gain a great deal and expect to lose my capital or gain 300- 400%. Would it be wise not to make the deal knowing I would have to pay taxes on the capital gain... of course not.

Yes gold ownership is discouraged, no your formula does not apply to the real world.

Gold and silver are the only currencies to crush the major FX c's by 15% a year last decade. That doesn't sound like a waste of time to me.

Actually it ranges from 10-28% for collectables. I caught the typo mistake but you are only allowed to fix your errors after a couple minutes.

So go to ebay, apmex, scottsdale you pay a good premium to buy any metals. Then you pay shipping and credit card fees. You get the silver/gold you have to secure it.

Ebay fees are 9% plus insertion and buy-it-now fees.

So you buy on ebay, 9% load, 28% capital gains, 9% load. You might be able to subtract the closing fee off the gain.

I don't want to pay taxes, I want the rich to pay taxes. I would support the elimination of the inflation, capital gains and dividend taxes.

Buy a rogers commodity index, pay a 1% annual fee if you are lucky.

You might only lose 1% a year compared to losing minimum 3% a year holding u.s. dollars.

Someone please talk me out of investing in copper/nickel via plain old US nickels.

They are made of 75% copper/25% nickel, and worth over 6.1 cents each in melt value. So you start off with a 20%+ gain right off the bat, and you will always be able to redeem them at face value. So you are basically freerolling with a call option on copper and nickel, that will never be worth less than what you paid for it. Right now you can't melt the coins down, but you also can't melt down older 90% silver coins, and I've bought/sold thousands of dollars in them and paid 11x face value, and sold at around 10x face. So there will be a market if nickels ever are worth about 10-15c each in melt value.

Plus if things get reaaaally bad you have a proven commodity and a valuable means of exchange. They are sooo easy to acquire as well, I can easily (!!) get $2500 or more per month without even trying. With a few more phone calls and some driving around I'm fairly confident I could acquire $10k per month in nickels. Storing them is sort of a pain but they come in $100 bricks. No sorting necessary as with pennies. And if/when they change the composition, there will be a robust collector's market, especially for freshly wrapped rolls and boxes from banks. In addition to silver and gold I think copper and nickel are worth a look. Worst case is you dump them at your local bank coin counter (the one I use is free) and spend your cash on something you need.

well for starters, it is illegal to melt these coins down for their metalic value... and it is also illegal for you to take large quantities of these coins out of the country. So unless you think these laws will change over time, then you'll have to be involved in illegal activity to make your profit.

and in your "if things get really bad" scenario, i doubt that people will use these as money. They are much more likley to use junk silver coins instead. in the barter scenario, commodities like copper and nickel would not have much value because the economy would be so depressed and there would be virutally no demand for their use as a commodity (and there is likely to be plenty of coppr and nikel still around). Gold and silver however, have the potential to used in barter and act as money, and will therefore still have a lot of value.

so i think you're better off just buying junk silver (which i assume you already own).

and i'm not 100% sure about this, but i'm pretty sure it is illegal to melt down copper and nickel coins... but it is legal to melt down silver coins (and i would guess it's also legal to melt gold coins).

I think the only U.S.Mint products that are illegal to melt or ship out of country in large quantities are certain nickels and pennies.

you're correct that you're basically freerolling, so if you were to otherwise just leave this money in your bank account, i suppose it's somewhat of a riskless proposition... though as you said, you'll have to pay above face to buy them, and will only be able to sell them at face. so in a way, you're booking a guaranteed loss. you'll only make money doing this if a) you do something illegal to melt them down or get them out of the country (so sell them to someone who will) b) the government changes the laws.

You're hope is that over time, the melt value of these coins rises significally above the face value... they will be taken out of circulation by the public, and the government will change the laws so they become more like junk silver... or a better secondary market develops on ebay or something where lots of other people want to buy them. But until the government changes those laws... you're probably never going to make much money at this... and you'll probably be waiting 20+ years. so i think it's kind of a silly idea to buy old nickels and pennies, and you're just better off buying the junk silver and watching the silver price soar above copper and nickel prices over the next decade and learning to deal with the 50% corrections along the way.

28% for gold. Not 10%, not 35%, not 18.

So go to someone with precious metals and offer 50-80% of spot. You are up immediately, and your fears of additional costs is basically nil. Sacrifice a small spread when selling and pay taxes... bingo. There is one way I can beat any paper trader (not including JPM).

(BTW) You have underestimated ebay fees for sellers, and over estimated for buyers.


That is so naive. The rich pay most of the taxes buddy. You don't want to pay taxes, you want someone else to take care of you because they made good decisions and worked hard, maybe started a business. Btw cap gains and dividends taxes are perfectly legitimate and should not be "done away" with.


I don't lose 1% a year, that would be unacceptable, and would do everything I could to avoid such poor performance. Otherwise how am I going to pay enough taxes to support your liberal food stamp habit. (jk steel )

Well as I said in my post, it's not illegal to buy and sell junk silver, regardless of whether people melt them down or not. You can now find a market on ebay for copper cents, going at about 2x face value. So there is a market even if you can't melt them down. Why would I have to take the coins outside the country? Plenty of coin dealers, flea markets, and websites will make for a huge market.

You don't have to acquire old nickels, that's what makes them so attractive. Even the 2010 nickels are the same composition, 75% copper/25% nickel. So any nickel you pick up is at least that, unless it's a silver war nickel or buffalo nickel, or something way older and more rare.

Yes I own some junk silver, which is also a good investment. But I just can't pass up an instant 20% profit in the nickels. Why pay 11 or 12x face value when I can pay 1x face value for something worth 1.2x and rising?

Also I am only 24 years old so I don't mind accumulating nickels and waiting 20 or even 30 years to turn a nice profit. If you go back in time to 1960, wouldn't you buy 90% silver coins at face value if you could sell them back in 2010 at 12x?

You're thinking in dollars. You could make a killing in dollars with your nickels in 20-30 years, and still lose in terms of purchasing power. Then there is the possibility that you do gain doing this, but could have gained more with some other investment.

I don't know how this "trade" would pan out, of course. That depends on the relative supply and demand of copper and nickel vs. other goods and services. Either way, it's not necessarily an automatic win just because you can't lose in dollar terms.