That is certainly where I'm at atm. Trying to determine the line somewhere in the healthy*** 20-35 yr old range.

Supporting non-vacced forcible exclusions from the workplace, travel and socializing (cafe, bars), as many posters here do, is literally going fascist level "hard into bat" for young people sub 25 to be vaccinated. Why do I have to explain this to you?

The trust I have is related to the competency of the doctor and the field in question. You do realize that medical mistakes kill 250,000 people per year, right? That drugs are massively over prescribed to great harm? That various medical interventions (prostate being a classic) are a huge net negative? That common sense on diets has CRUSHED the consensus scientific and medical establishment opinion (avoid saturated fats!) for 30 years now? And so on.

This isn't hard man. For a virologist:

I trust them to know how to detect a virus
I trust them to produce reliable epidemiological data
I trust them to produce tests and vaccines to the best human ability

I don't trust them to produce quality models of spread (modeling is hard and the field is low IQ)
I don't trust them to do good threat analysis on incomplete information
I don't trust their advice once it's been politicized or ossified (masks) such that their reputation is on the line if they backflip
I don't trust them to properly understand boundary cases or black swans.

For a medical doctor

I trust them to do routine procedures competently on average, and intelligent careful experts to do difficult procedures competently
I trust them to diagnose with reasonable accuracy

I don't trust them to prescribe pills with a proper cost/benefit analysis. I expect to fail horribly at that
I don't trust them in treatments with low level effects, low evidence/high quackery fields like psychiatry, or where there aren't good treatments yet and their financial and reputational self interest is at stake, like large parts of oncology.

This is just basic stuff, it's not hard.

Tricky question, because the majority of anti-vaxx posters (the quacks as you call them) are clearly anti-vaxx for all things vaccine, so it would be safe to say the majority of anti-vaxxer posters would think the vaccine is always bad, but if you added up all their posts in this thread they would still have fewer than the thousands you have in this thread, so is counting the sheer number of posters the best way to do the math? Probably is, as most anti-vaxxers are quacks.

You really talk about me a lot in your posts. In contrast, I don't think you can find a post where I directly talk about you in the same manner. That shows the power of messaging, where one person has an impact on another and in contrast when someone has virtually no impact.

Your bigotry based ageist stuff is pretty routine. Perhaps you use people's religious beliefs or sexual orientation or skin color as an insult when that need arises as well. Pretty low end as personal attacks go, but it fits the toxic personality. I do find the age based insults the most amusing, because a lot of the people on your general side are basically the same age bracket as me, so perhaps that helps explain why your messaging falls flat. How should the 38 year old who might want to share some beliefs like you feel knowing he ceases to be a person of value within 2 years? Anyone above 40 is essentially a valueless human from your posting, so good luck when you turn 40 in the not so distant future . Safe to say, you aint ever gonna be a grandpa.

The danger in the world is when people with actual voices that matter are able to use hate based agendas to change the world around them. We saw that quite often with Trump and his policies, so ignoring/dismissing that danger is a bad idea. Still, as you have no voice and no followers - one can say that coming from you it is for now completely harmless, so you can continue to be as toxic as you like.

I haven't seen one post anywhere, even outside of here, saying seniors shouldn't get the vaccine

Guess we can ask some of the extreme anti-vaxxers who post here their thoughts on that. Most just post stuff they see on the internet or talk about the latest miracle cure that is not a vaccine, so would be interesting to see if any of them would lock in a response of certain people should get a vaccine.

Monteroy,
I love older people, learn a lot from them. Some of my family are older people! "Grandpa" is not a diss unless you have the worst features of one. Some people - the far lower end of the human race - as they get older become lonely nihilistic misanthropes like yourself. Which is why you sit on a computer spewing your admitted "zero value" posts (there's that nihilism again, whereas I am actually interested in the topic) rather than being a happy older person. Your age is the defining cause of your misanthropy and your meta-commenting (your 18 year old self would throw up if it met you). No one is like you when they're younger because it takes time and lack of imagination and lack of courage and lack of judgement and lack of intellectual curiosity, ground down by years of failure, to end up like you.

Your obsession with me is hilarious. Half your posts are multi paragraph comments on me. If there's one thing I do well, like Henry17, it's to make the forum's losers completely lose their mind over me and become completely obsessed. You are actually a fully admitted troll though (you said all posts here including yours have "zero" value, meaning you are here just to troll), so why jalexand hasn't exiled a high volume, zero content idiot/loser like yourself is beyond me. You literally admit that nothing you post has any worth or ever will and that this thread is worthless to you, which means you're here to be less lonely and for no other reason.

Monte,

You have posted literally nothing of value related to covid. I cannot remember a single link or genuine post on the topic. Just endless ramblings and paragraphs about the power of messaging and these strange condescending trolls. Is this cathartic to you?

New Zealand police broke up a lockdown protest of one (1) person

Brazil cases down 17% and deaths down 20% past 14 days. 27% fully vaccinated with 61% receiving one dose. Much of this drop must be related to total burn thru as well

Fitting since they went on a nationwide lockdown for one case.

As I've spewed before all over the internet- if any place can achieve covid zero, it is them. And they still won't be able to. Even if they do it won't last

Which is entirely the correct thing to do if you are pursuing an elimination strategy. Time will tell whether it works or not.

See, I know you are deeply interested in the topic. That shows. However, you also have a clear agenda in your posts and all the links you provide. I am not sure you even realize it, since you live it. You also want to be validated - that also shows. The problem is that your messaging is so toxic that it makes it hard for even those that want to be on your team to join your team. The best results you get is when you hurl personal attacks at me or a few others, and then a couple quacks (as you call them) will chime in, and that is it.

I talk about messaging, because messaging matters. You believe you are posting thousands of content rich posts in this thread on a topic that matters to you. You tell me, what do you have to show for that effort? Who is with you? Who have you convinced of any of it? At least Shuffle, with his posting style, does not care what others thinks as he is literally screaming at the clouds, but you want to be heard and to matter - so show me - how have you done that? Who and what have you changed with your posts? You are your biggest, and generally only vocal supporter, so you tell me, since it is unlikely anyone else will.

If you want to toss some more personal attacks at me that is fine. The reality is if either of us died the other would not care in the slightest, so in that dynamic I always place the appropriate amount value of what the other person in that equation says, and how much they matter, and I suggest you do the same. Perhaps you do not share that dynamic with everyone so show us who you have convinced in this thread with your grand effort to post thousands of educational, high value posts. Hint, if you do that then you can start to build on your brand of messaging and perhaps find some actual followers, or you can be like Shuffle and use this thread as your variant of a cathartic blog.

I'd care if anyone I talked to died. I'm not a nihilistic misanthrope like you. You really need to grow up.

The thread is valuable for sharpening my knowledge and opinions/keeping up with covid developments, since I trade stocks daily. For example, I posted a real time 100% profit trade on MRNA here because I follow covid so closely. It has opportunities (MRNA has been great trading generally lately, as have some covid stocks).

Some asides happen in all threads but ultimately the BFI regulars are here to discuss covid developments, not "messaging" or politics or whatever total loser/off topic agenda you have being a non-trader which form the entirety of your worthless, idiotic posts. I've been a BFI regular posting trades and trading related content for 6 years. It's why I'm here. You're just an idiot who posts in "poker is rigged" threads for attention.

When jalexand fails to be ban the high volume zero content trolls who think the entire thread is "zero" value, the thread becomes less valuable for everyone. It's not rocket science.

Nah, perhaps you like to fool yourself, but you post in the most toxic manner possible. No idea if you would be happy if I croaked, perhaps you would laugh. That's fine. I would not be happy if you croaked, I would not be sad. I simply would not care, because we are literally nothing to each other as humans. Just a couple randos having some banter on a fringe thread in an outdated forum. If you want to suggest that you, with your posting history, cares deeply about all the people you call idiots, morons, misanthropes etc. then go for it, but you are only trying to fool yourself.

Hey, I posted all last year about some crazy political wagering opportunities as well, though few listened! I will slightly agree with you in that swimming with the derps did help me fully appreciate the opportunity, so I will give you a bit of a point there. In my case I saw the extent of how much they had a cult like belief and that they were willing to hurl a ton of money behind it, and since they were clearly incapable of making +EV choices (they did not care about that) - it created a pretty rare opportunity.

Now that we are being polite and all (assuming you avoid your normal mundane personal attacks) - how about how you share some general or specific examples of how other posters in this thread sharpened your beliefs to invest in your trading.

Who are these regs? You and Shuffle post the most and the bulk of other posts are from people you refer to as quacks. The horse medication people, the vitamin D people, the heat wave people. Take this opportunity to list a chunk of the BFI regulars who are a big part of what you are today in this thread to give them the credit they deserve. Hint, I am helping you with how you message yourself.

All of the above questions can be answered without your need to whine to or about the unpaid mods. For that you can write the new owners and ask to become a mod of this forum and then (assuming you are unpaid) - I would respect whatever choice you make, because for $0 on a forum like this - mods can do what they want in my opinion.

Again you really need to grow up and realize that everything you're posting is idiotic trash that no one cares about. It's a basic social skill to talk about stuff that other people want to hear and you don't have even that which is probably why you're so miserable/misanthropic. Learn it for everyone's sake, it's never too late! Here's another poster telling you this:
Listen to the man above. I'm going to ignore you completely but I predict your continued unwell obsession with me and endless weird rants about "messaging" and grandpa wisdom.

That guy is a co-founding member of team "Let it Rip!" so its cool if he tosses some heat to me once in a while. That is what the team is about. Irony is that I pointed out some issues with some of the links he posted, and to his credit - he acknowledged them at the time. Messaging matters.

Anyway, I noticed that you went back to your bond with others through insulting me approach, even though I gently tossed you softball questions asking you to simply list the regulars (that you talked about) and posts (that you said existed) that helped you with what this thread means to you. Those should have been beyond easy to answer in a positive way about yourself (and others), as long as those claims of yours were true. Interesting, though not surprising, that you chose to not answer them in any way. This was the outcome I expected, as you can probably ascertain.

The most obvious thing about him is he never had any success at poker. Seemed obvious with his general midwit persona. Probably never gets tired of mopping the floor with his grandkids at tick tack toe. If 6k posts lapping the field in the poker is rigged conspiracy thread wasn't a bright enough indicator he has mental problems, this thread should be. Notice the hostility and frequency of his posts picks up around the weekends. Like suicide rates increase around the holidays. I suspect this is when his loneliness peaks. Its actually midwit clever how he'll start a morning off with a piping hot troll. Get the bait in the water early so he's got a busy day of trolling ahead of him

Justin the lispy genius has a plan for vaccine passports. Another brilliant idea

Vaccine certificates coming to Ontario

You have so many theories abt so many things that if you throw enoughshit at the wall something will come close to sticking. I like how this serves as reinforcement for all your other claims. The shuffle spiral continues

Question .
Is there at any point in time a possibility that people should have responsibilities about their choice on beliefs ?

You can’t travel or go to bar ?
It is not as if the state force the people to get the vaccine or force someone to something .
You still not obligated to take the vaccine, you can chose not too !

1 group of people want to force woman in their way of life by not allowing them an abortion , having graver consequences in life than not going to a bar ….
Are they fascist too ?

Btw Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power.

This is an irrelevant question since vaccinated people spread covid almost as much as unvaccinated people. How does this fact (and its implications for the mooting of your question) not download into your brain?

Yes, and Germans weren't obligated to follow Nazism. They just got fired from work, shunned from social places, and unable to travel on public transport - exactly what is being done in various European countries by the government if you don't get a vaccine.

Abortion is the deliberate killing of a human being. So no they're not; this is a question of what is what is life and what is human and disagreements over that; no part of that is fascist. In fact, murdering the helpless and unwanted is fascist, and thus abortion is more fascist than anti-abortion is.

I have to define words for you too now?
The characterization of vaccine passports as fascist is accurate sir. "Papers now!" and forcing a medical treatment in order to live your daily life, socialize and work is inherently fascist. It might even be acceptable/a necessary evil IF it stopped the spread of covid, but it has no effect on the spread of covid - it's going through everyone now as of delta and vaccine are useless at preventing that - so there's no moral reason at all to descend into such authoritarian behavior. Again, people like you would have made great Nazis, the big government authoritarian instincts and the poor understanding of basic individualist ethical principles are all there.

It's not facism but it's also not an issue of personal responsibilitiy. Of course prohibiting people from behaving in ways they otherwise would (and even earn a living) is coercive. The very idea is in large part to 'encourage' people to get vaccinated'. But we do coercive/deterrant type things all the time in our societies so it's just a question of justification and democratic legitimacy.

It's a very serious thing to do so not one that should we should shy away from discussing or recognising objections.

It's your right to refuse medical treatment without state-endorsed negative consequences. If you're an idiot who thinks the vaccines are harmful, if you're afraid of them, if you hate needles and would rather chance it with covid, if you're a PhD who thinks the cost/benefit doesn't make sense (PhDs have the highest rates of vaccine skepticism of most groups because they're not morons unlike the dim/midwits here), you shouldn't lose your job or be unable to eat out anywhere or unable to travel long distance on public transport. Pretty simple idea that the pro-vaccine fascists can't grasp (there's a huge overlap, >90%, between fascism and modern left wing thinking - both are authoritarian and dismissive of individual sovereignty, both believe they know what's morally and scientifically correct and aggressively dismiss the diversity of ideas, both have high trust for experts, both believe in excluding people from society who don't conform, etc)