Ask Tooth about flip flopping. Of course i can quote him flip flopping and saying 'what that is how science evolves. We adjust as new data comes in', but when it comes to other experts he, like you, think you need to pin experts with point in time positions as if any change means you busted them and can prove they should not be trusted.

Derp, derpidity, derp.

I suppose common sense says that if science has faults then we would better off without it?

The planet might prefer it because humanity would be much less succesful as a species but would anyone here really prefer to live in the world we would have without science? seriously?

The dumbest think those people are "experts" like you do and do as they are told by the "experts".

When your kid is more likely to die in a car accident then die from covid and they want to pump them full of an experimental treatment. NOT A CURE. A treatment that is suppose to help them when they really need no help. And even if my kid already had Covid and didn't feel a thing, they want to pump them full of a treatment in case they ever get it again. They aren't saying it this minute about kids, but it's coming and it's coming fast. Probably after the FDA approval.

I don't care what the "experts" ****ing say.

Financial "experts" all said crypto was bullshit. I didn't listen to them either many years ago and now I'm retired at a young age.

Kid can't pay attention in boring ass school? Let's give them amphetamines to keep them still and listening. Surely that will work out over the course of their life. But the "experts" said it's a good idea.

The insanity is everywhere.

You have to think for your ****ing self.

Are you speaking about cigarettes?
Or Indirectly pesticides?

Asbestos, DDT, lead, mercury, Nitrofen and PCBs (to name a few) were all considered safe at some point by The Scientific Community™.

But that’s the thing isn’t it ?
Ill bet you one bitcoin the chance of dying from covid is higher than dying from the vaccine !

So why freak on a vaccine that is like 1000 X less dangerous than the virus itself ?


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

« Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 357 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 16, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,789 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine ».

Explain to me how a person logical as you is not scared of 1% about a mortal virus but freak out about 0.0019% from a benign vaccine ?

The point was , how many people knowingly would ingest those products , I named a few .
Ho yeah and they still do !!!!

Science has faults. The problem is this isn't even science with the vaccine. I would assume science makes very calculated decisions and what not. This is more of a **** show then science.

There's a reason they had rules on how long it takes to get a vaccine FDA approval. I don't even care about FDA approval, if they approve it I'll still think the same of it. The point being, is they know they can't know **** about a vaccine until it's been time tested. So the rule was made in the past based on very calculated decisions and now they go and just forget about the fact they should see what this does for a while first before giving it to the entire planet. That's not science.

First off the death rate in kids is like .01%.

How do you know what the rates of people who die from the vaccine are? We just started giving them! Just because they didn't die that week or month doesn't mean their immune system hasn't been compromised.

What happens when they find out peoples immune systems who got a vaccine can no longer deal with covid naturally and the vaccine wears off quicker and quicker and you need a shot every month or week or you die? They are already at 8 months. Get your booster!

This is why you can't run numbers on how safe the vaccine is. All the after effects remain to be seen. According to these "scientists" who tout these vaccines, smoking cigs is perfectly safe because it didn't kill anyone in the first year of smoking.

Yes. It's a good idea not to confuse a regulatory authority with science.

and you're probably right not to care about FDA moving to full approval. A
worse disease could kill ~everyone long before the FDA would move to full approval.

Ok so it’s not 1000 X it’s 100 x les dangerous than the virus itself for kids .
Point remains .

If your not scared of 0.1% from a factual dangerous virus , it’s illogical to be scared about 0.0019 % of a maybe dangerous vaccine , shrug .

The rest your reaching .
You can say the same thing about every medications, surgery , etc …
And still I think you would still go to hospital if need to .

You obviously have bias against vaccine and it’s ok .
But it ain’t base on probability or science ….

The concept of vaccine didn’t came out yesterday , they got a pretty good track record .

Ps: vaccine today are probably far more safer today with all the computing power and AI existing today that weren’t available decades ago .
Probably another reason they can go faster with approval .

I said .01%. Not .1%.

And no I'm not reaching. .0019% is some made up number because the effects still have yet to be seen.

When they first came out with the vaccine they had all kinds of numbers for it's effectiveness. How is that possible? How do you know how effective it is without giving it time? They had **** like after the 2nd shot it's 97% effective against getting it and spreading it.

Now they are saying it doesn't even keep you from getting it or spreading it. This has all happened in a few months.

How big of a ****ing swing in stats is that? This is why you can't go by your .0019% number. Give it time.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...for-vaccinated

Probably because more then 1 variant exist today compare when the vaccine got made at first .

It’s not a made up number .
It’s the death case vs the number of people that got vaccinated.
Now if you need 20 years to give confidence to a vaccine it’s fine .


It’s like the shot vs the flu , sometimes it works great sometimes less .
Does not imply it is more dangerous .
Actually it might be the reason it is less efficient by making it the safest possible but obv at a cost -> less efficiency.

Can't we have both common sense and science, or is that too much to ask for?

Probably because the vaccine caused the variant and will likely cause many more. You said it yourself, the variant came after the vaccine. There's been a plenty of research on how **** vaccines can cause much stronger variants. And yes, that research has years of evidence.

There's also a part of me that feels like the "variant" is a way for them to say, well the vaccine doesn't work, but it's not our fault.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, I don't want to hear about some variant you might have just made up as to why everyone still has COVID. You made the vaccine to protect against covid and it's not working so your saying it's some other type of covid. Even if the variant is legit, as I said before, it's likely their ****ing **** caused it, so science loses again.

I don't need 20 years either. Just give me 3-5.

If I'm not high risk, it makes 0 sense for me not to wait. If you are high risk, then take it.

Or if you've had it and dealt with it fine, makes 0 sense to get vaccine until its proven.

I told you before , covid by itself can mutate many times more than the entire numbers of atoms in the universe ….

Ill take the bigger number of atoms than the 4-5 (?) vaccine that was responsable for the mutation ….

If you want to accuse vaccines, while being like 10000000 less likely than a natural mutation , be my guess .
I dont take decisions using probabilities like that .

Hopefully u don’t either In investment or playing poker …

Ps: I don’t know when the delta variant appear exactly .
It Do not really matter , covid and Influenza mutate too often all the time .

Btw I don’t want to enter into a debate , just so you know , I’m against vaccination being legally forced .
But the the concept of vaccination being dangerous is totally out of proportion from probabilities and science .

Sure we have to use judgement but the trouble with common sense is that it's usually just bollocks.

Common sense should tell ~everyone that they dont have anywhere near enough knowledge to go against the science even if the science might be wrong. Common sense should tell them that some bod on the internet is a lot, lot more likely to be wrong than the science.

It's almost like people trying to outguess quantum physics with common sense.

New Zealand waking up and beginning to question their zero covid strategy
https://thebigstorypodcast.ca/2021/08/20/3808/

Australia as well: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...le-2021-08-23/

Looks like the virus is going to get to go wild after all, after people have to endure lots of pointless lockdowns and masking.

Depends which scientist's version of the science you believe though. That's the problem. Scientists are renown for getting things badly wrong. History is littered with their mistakes and the victims of those mistakes.

As for saying common sense is bollocks. That's the dumbest thing I think I've heard in a long time.

All methodologies get things wrong at times. Science is in a different league to the others when it comes to being less wrong

Common sense should tell you that science getting things wrong needs to be compared to the alternative before it's considered as an objection to science.

I don't think lockdowns are/were pointless. What is pointless is continued lockdowns with the vain hope of eradication.

Ontario is reporting multi month highs, and in a few months it'll be cold here. I won't be here, but am very interested to see if lockdowns become some rolling annual thing or if they're really in the rear view

If a certain amount of your population is vaccinated then you just have to move on. And if vaccines prove to be ineffectual then we are all just straight fccked

NZ had the right strategy with alpha but delta is a different ball game. They are going for elimination at this stage while cases are still relatively low. But if the numbers get out of control then it will be time to consider a different approach.

They weren't pointless but they were largely squandered by the failures to vaccinate.

Still isn't clear how much more time, if any, lockdowns can buy. The NZ cases are still pre the latest lockdown and there's going to be a lot more even if the lockdown does manage to work to a significant extent