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Shane Schleger on smoking crack Shane Schleger on smoking crack

03-01-2014 , 02:22 PM
It's hardly sleuthing when it's made widely available.

So why now? What inspired/motivated you to speak out about it?
Do you think it's possible you may be in denial?
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros
What stigma assigned to crack cocaine is fictitious?
- that it's so powerful you get addicted on one hit

- that it causes criminality or deceit or moral decrepitude.

I suggest watching The House I Live In - http://www.thehouseilivein.org/-- then you will see how the public campaign against crack that started in the 80s and still forms the bulk of popular opinion on the subject was not qualitatively much different from "reefer madness."

Most public perception of the drug is a result of propaganda, myth and bad science.

Last edited by shaniac; 03-01-2014 at 02:25 PM. Reason: and racism
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masq
It's hardly sleuthing when it's made widely available.

So why now? What inspired/motivated you to speak out about it?
Do you think it's possible you may be in denial?
I don't deny the possibility that I am in denial.

I just think it's more productive to think that this is my way of getting help while also eschewing the traditional recovery modalities. Creating this dialogue has helped me pull my priorities into focus and I think it will affect a lot less usage in my own life. If having an honest discussion about drugs like what we're doing on Dope Stories helps me, then maybe it helps someone else who views himself in some kind of grey area.

I don't mind you sifting through old media of course, just letting you know there's no need to go chasing waterfalls. Weed and cigarettes were the sources of tension between my parents and me. Crack was the habit I had to hide completely.

Although one time my grandmother caught a look in my eyes in '99 and just her ability to see that in my eyes sorta scared me straight.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:32 PM
Hope people don't consider this off-topic, but that's pretty cool you've had pieces published on Slate, and have that larger voice - congrats shaniac.

Do you have to submit a lot of pieces, or ideas for pieces, in hopes something'll interest the editors?
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
- that it's so powerful you get addicted on one hit

- that it causes criminality or deceit or moral decrepitude.

I suggest watching The House I Live In - http://www.thehouseilivein.org/-- then you will see how the public campaign against crack that started in the 80s and still forms the bulk of popular opinion on the subject was not qualitatively much different from "reefer madness."

Most public perception of the drug is a result of propaganda, myth and bad science.
Fair enough, I'll definitely check those out. In the meantime let me ask you a question - what pragmatic outcome are you hoping to achieve by representing the other side of the crack argument? I'm all for truth and informed consent but what is the truth if the vast majority of crack use results in destructive outcomes? Are you simply seeking to demonstrate that crack destroys 95% of lives rather than 100% of them?
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:40 PM
I think the reaction in this thread shows what kind of unreasonable stigma is attached to crack.

If he had wrote about snorting coke periodically over the years, no one would be batting an eyelash.

It's the same drug, same active ingredient acting on the same part of the brain. The only difference is the method of absorption into the bloodstream.

Our justice system is also seriously flawed in this regard. A white kid can get popped with an ounce of blow and go to rehab, get probation, etc. A black kid gets caught with two or three rocks with less than .1 grams of cocaine content and do a mandatory couple of years, no questions asked.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam
Hope people don't consider this off-topic, but that's pretty cool you've had pieces published on Slate, and have that larger voice - congrats shaniac.

Do you have to submit a lot of pieces, or ideas for pieces, in hopes something'll interest the editors?
This is only the second piece I've written for them...the first one was a piece in 2011 when an editor found me through a mutual acquaintance to write about poker players post Black Friday. (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...04/busted.html)

When I decided I wanted to publish a piece like this on drugs, I pitched the idea to the same editor, and he was interested.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankoblanco
The thing is you can replace smoking crack with drinking alcohol in the above paragraph and it would also be true for countless people. Do I think smoking crack is worse? Absolutely. I guess I just don't feel like it's my place to draw a line past something as destructive as alcohol but before crack and say that's where the line is. Crack is harder to use in moderation, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so.
I feel that people jump too fast onto the drugs are bad bandwagon. I know several people that are highly addicted to pot but seem to live a functional lifestyle. Because its the drug of the commons, no one looks or thinks twice. These people seem to be high all the time. i honestly cant remember seeing them sober in years. some even start selling it to pay for the habit. Do i look down on them for this lifestyle? No, because i smoke it occasionally too and i absolutely love it. If i could do it every day (and afford it) i would. i often envy those who can. But i dont like the mental haze/hangover i get from smoking the night before. The amount of creative energy and happiness i get well outweighs the negative side effects

Should this be any different of a situation if you substitute crack for weed? Just because the drug ruins a higher percentage of the lives involved with it doesnt mean there are a select few who can use it responsibly.

Im just using this as an example to show the stigma behind some drugs. If someone can successfully and intelligently use a drug, whether it be crack or or alcohol, then they have every right to do so unjudged.

I find it funny how so many people here who play poker (which has a similar social taint) are trashing a guy for his drug choice. its like a listerine chugging group forum talking **** about sniffin' glue.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:48 PM
I am glad that you are trying to start an open an honest discussion on harder drug use.

I respect your honesty on your personal use, and feel as though if anyone could get a good discussion going on the topic it is someone with your writing ability and character.

I wish the best for you going forward and hope you are able to keep a handle on your use.

(While I personally have never done any hard drugs, I see nothing wrong with people who desire to use them. They should all be legal and regulated and taxed, and education as well as addiction/etc. centers needs to be greatly improved.)
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:49 PM
Also want to highly recommend the house I live in - it was also featured in an episode of this american life on npr with some added interviews
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:55 PM
Shaniac will not suck cock for rock

Spoiler:
yet
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
I don't think I ever said, "crack can be used in moderation." I also didn't write the piece to normalize the drug or make my behavior acceptable.

***

If I had taken a more classic approach and presented a "cry for help" this would be all be interpreted much differently. But I am unapologetic, because I consider drug use of all kinds to be a normal function of human consciousness. The distinctions we make between drugs tend to be ambiguous, sometimes arbitrary, or, worse, often based on fictitious stigmas and prejudices that have come to represent the truth.
Yeah I don't know where people are getting the idea that you're suggesting crack is harmless or no big deal. Seems to me you just decided to open up about your drug use and you don't even seem to be defending your behavior all that much; you're just talking about it. I give you props fwiw.

In my opinion you have nothing to apologize for, including about either your past/future drug use or writing/talking about in the way you are, at least not to me or anybody else who wasn't affected by it. And I agree with your comment about arbitrary distinctions between drugs based on fictitious stigmas and prejudices. Just look at our justice system and the differences between the mandatory sentencing guidelines for cocaine and crack, the same drug. Those differences are absolutely based on prejudices and beliefs about what type of person typically uses cocaine and what type of person typically uses crack.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 02:59 PM
Every single drug is going to effect every single person differently. Hard alcohol effects me much worse then any drug out there while under the influence. A lot of mentally ill people get temporary relief from using rock and I think that is where the stereotypical crack smokers image comes from. If cocaine never existed there life would have still turned out somewhat similar.

Smoking cocaine is never something I could do two nights in a row nor have I ever smoked it more then a few times in a year. I do enjoy listening to music, sex, playing chess and socializing while going through some gear though. I would never recommend trying it for a life experience but, for me at least, hard alcohol is just much, much worse.

I first tried it around the same time and place as Shane (phish&further tour late 90's) I recall seeing someone take a hit, then carry on a conversation like nothing had happened. I recall vividly being blown away by this being nothing like DARE told me. I really think this where my wanting to try it came from. I just wanted to actually experience the effects for myself.

I think the best line with teaching drug prevention to kids is being knowledgeable and completely honest as possible with them. Curiosity is very strong in human nature.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
- that it causes criminality or deceit or moral decrepitude.
It doesn't cause criminality when you come from money and can afford to buy as much crack as you want. As for regular people, it leads to them selling things they own, neglecting things they need, and eventually stealing to pay for it when the money runs out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimAfternoon
I think the reaction in this thread shows what kind of unreasonable stigma is attached to crack.

If he had wrote about snorting coke periodically over the years, no one would be batting an eyelash.

It's the same drug, same active ingredient acting on the same part of the brain. The only difference is the method of absorption into the bloodstream.
That is so not true. Crack is WAY more powerful and addictive. There's a reason you constantly hear about crack ruining peoples lives but seldom hear it about coke, and it's got nothing to do with propaganda.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros
Fair enough, I'll definitely check those out. In the meantime let me ask you a question - what pragmatic outcome are you hoping to achieve by representing the other side of the crack argument? I'm all for truth and informed consent but what is the truth if the vast majority of crack use results in destructive outcomes? Are you simply seeking to demonstrate that crack destroys 95% of lives rather than 100% of them?
Trying to demonstrate that "crack" doesn't destroy lives at all, per se. It's a combination of the effects of the substance itself and the attitude and treatment of addicts and the policies that emerge from those attitudes.

From a practical point of view, I don't know what I'm trying to achieve, besides maybe get more ears listening to Dope Stories. The risk vs. reward is hard to calculate, and I'm mostly acting on a personal conviction that this is the time and place to foster a broader discussion about drug use.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czar Chasm
That is so not true. Crack is WAY more powerful and addictive. There's a reason you constantly hear about crack ruining peoples lives but seldom hear it about coke, and it's got nothing to do with propaganda.
Crack is more powerful, because as the poster you are replying to mentioned, the method of absorption allows for more of the drug to be taken into your system more quickly. But what makes you say it's more addictive? It has a similarly addictive quality to HCL cocaine, and thankfully the physiologically addictive properties of both are minimal (vs. opiates).

Can't fully address your criminality argument right now. Watch House I Live In, you'll see there is a lot more to the story, but most of the violence that was attributed to crack had nothing to do with users of the drug.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:12 PM
so were u high on the WCOOP final table run?
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
Trying to demonstrate that "crack" doesn't destroy lives at all, per se. It's a combination of the effects of the substance itself and the attitude and treatment of addicts and the policies that emerge from those attitudes.
i find tremendous delusion, denial, and lack responsibility in this line of thinking. i think you're setting yourself up to hit that rock bottom that you talk about wanting to avoid. you've clearly already given yourself permission to continue to smoke crack in the future, and now you're going around trying to justify it to everyone. I thought the article was reasonable, and well written. I think your further commentary and reaction to other people's comments prove that you have a much more serious problem than you seem to be consciously aware of. it seems you're trying to convince yourself (and have others agree with you) that crack is not a problem and that if people only saw the treatment of crackheads as the problem then everything would be OK. I see this leading to you retreating to crack with the feeling of, "**** those close-minded *******s who stigmatize crack use. crack is OK and i don't need any of them." This is the thinking of a crackhead. Everything I've read from you outside of the article screams of a drug addict in denial.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:22 PM
..hilarity ensued..

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhabit
So many sheep ITT. You're no different than clowns that want weed to stay illegal because they watched reefer madness 50 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knock turnL
The majority of people in the US use hard drugs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nohavecards
Pharmaceutical drugs are basically heroin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimAfternoon
I think the reaction in this thread shows what kind of unreasonable stigma is attached to crack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesdaco
I find it funny how so many people here who play poker (which has a similar social taint) are trashing a guy for his drug choice. its like a listerine chugging group forum talking **** about sniffin' glue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
a) poker players have themselves had to overcome stigmas related to the profession before being accepted by society
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
I think creating a more finely-tuned basis for critical thinking is important so people don't illogically condemn users of one drug vs. another.

If someone was trying to tell you that poker is the same as blackjack, you'd try to clarify the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
psychedelics, which don't have a reputation as "hard drugs"
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
I just think it's more productive to think that this is my way of getting help while also eschewing the traditional recovery modalities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
Although one time my grandmother caught a look in my eyes in '99 and just her ability to see that in my eyes sorta scared me straight.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
But what makes you say it's more addictive?
You mean aside from the fact that it's well documented and nearly universally agreed upon? Personal experience with former friends then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
It has a similarly addictive quality to HCL cocaine, and thankfully the physiologically addictive properties of both are minimal (vs. opiates).
Ah, the crutch of the coke/crackhead. Yes the drug isn't very physiologically addictive. That doesn't mean it isn't mentally addictive as all hell.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:35 PM
I have used HCL cocaine probably 50-75 times in my life over a decade in my 20s. I have used crack maybe six times. Strangely, I never tried crack until I was around 32, and it was the last of my drug usage roughly 7 years ago.

More than anything, it's the lungs that would scare me. I have a friend right smack about your age. Fit, smart girl who used in a manner very close to what you describe. Sporadic use young, long time of no usage, and then had a bad life event and she got sad and smoked a lot of crack over a year period. She got COPD at 34 after about a year of hard use. Really rough to have to lug around an oxygen tank because of a sad year where you lost your head. She has remarked that she can't believe she didn't feel it coming on. She said she'd hack up junk when she woke up, but no tightness or wheezing until it was there one day and never left.

I didn't find it any more addictive or scary than regular cocaine. Both can be scary at times. I actually felt I could control crack a little better, and when the night ended, I felt a depressive crash come on, but I was able to knock myself out with Xanax. With powder, the times I went too hard I had to ride out the heart beating at 140 for hours and xanax would only take the edge off, abut not knock me out. I never used crack two days in a row though. Thankfully I was old enough to simply step away after a half-dozen times. Not addicting in the long term, but really hard to control the impulse while using and to stop.

A few things. Your article is a very male-centric examination of hard drug use. Obviously it would be given it's your story, but for females, it's a much more dangerous game in my experience. All dealers want is your money, end of story. Females, if even semi-attractive, are altogether different targets for many dealers, and it can spiral much harder and way uglier than it does for men. The only semi-functional crack users I have ever met are men. We have to buy drugs. Girls have other options. They get chewed up way faster and find themselves in really bad spots that make it harder to step away because they feel so personally disgusted with what they've done to keep the train rolling.

I have never once had a standard paranoid episode on any drug. Most of my friends were paranoid at one point, but never me. What I was incredibly scared of was health issues, and why I never became an addict. I felt a heart attack was always imminent, and it was what always got me to slow down and eventually quit. Hearing you talk of using for hours, and buying multiple times, and it sounds like many days in a row, I feel my pulse rising.

It was always weird to me how people would get paranoid that someone/LE was coming to get them, while not having the slightest worry about their health while I never once got paranoid in that manner, but was uber-paranoid about every heart beat. That was my paranoia. I'm kind of glad I was tbh or I may have got caught up hard.

Interesting read. Hopefully with a new wife you'll just see the downside as too great and decide it simply isn't worth it before you damage yourself irreparably.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaniac
This is only the second piece I've written for them...the first one was a piece in 2011 when an editor found me through a mutual acquaintance to write about poker players post Black Friday. (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...04/busted.html)

When I decided I wanted to publish a piece like this on drugs, I pitched the idea to the same editor, and he was interested.
Yeah, I remembered that piece - think a lot of people were really happy about how you were able to describe how Black Friday was impacting poker players on a personal basis.

And the points you made about some of the advantages of online poker over existing live games were great, like that "One of the essential advantages of online poker is the ability to have a steady positive expectation on a relatively small bankroll," and that "[t]he difference is that the time spent to achieve those earnings in a live event will be days as opposed to hours. More significantly, the chance of going on a 20-tournament downswing is equally likely but far more costly live—a loss of $200,000 as compared with $2,000."

Cool that you've had a chance to do some writing, in addition to playing poker ... thanks so much for answering my question
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSKS
so were u high on the WCOOP final table run?
JFC read the thread, or listen to my podcast. I don't leave the house if I'm smoking base, much less play poker.

Do you ever get drunk and act stupid for a night? It's kinda like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheCheaters
i find tremendous delusion, denial, and lack responsibility in this line of thinking. i think you're setting yourself up to hit that rock bottom that you talk about wanting to avoid. you've clearly already given yourself permission to continue to smoke crack in the future, and now you're going around trying to justify it to everyone. I thought the article was reasonable, and well written. I think your further commentary and reaction to other people's comments prove that you have a much more serious problem than you seem to be consciously aware of. it seems you're trying to convince yourself (and have others agree with you) that crack is not a problem and that if people only saw the treatment of crackheads as the problem then everything would be OK. I see this leading to you retreating to crack with the feeling of, "**** those close-minded *******s who stigmatize crack use. crack is OK and i don't need any of them." This is the thinking of a crackhead. Everything I've read from you outside of the article screams of a drug addict in denial.
Your perspective wasn't uncommon among the 1000+ people who commented on Slate, but you're wrong that I've "clearly given myself permission to continue smoking" when I've already stated this is more a part of goal of harm reduction and decreasing usage.

I simply don't make abstinence a goal, because I don't think it's realistic. I've spent plenty of time feeling ashamed of my dirty little habit, so why should I create a construct where using once equates to failure?

I think because I didn't pay more lip-service to my shame and to the idea that abstinence is the obviously more desirable outcome, I am seen as endorsing crack use as part of your experimental diet. I wasn't. Why if I say I won't make a pledge to abstinence is it seen as giving myself license to smoke more? I'm arguing that there's a truth somewhere in between the extremes.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:45 PM
I realize you can't exactly admit otherwise for obvious reasons, but it's going to be tough for a lot of us to really believe you were a crackhead for 15 years, a professional poker player for a large part of that, and never ONCE mixed the two...

I'd bet against it with every penny I have.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote
03-01-2014 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by napoleoninrags2
I have used HCL cocaine probably 50-75 times in my life over a decade in my 20s. I have used crack maybe six times. Strangely, I never tried crack until I was around 32, and it was the last of my drug usage roughly 7 years ago.

More than anything, it's the lungs that would scare me. I have a friend right smack about your age. Fit, smart girl who used in a manner very close to what you describe. Sporadic use young, long time of no usage, and then had a bad life event and she got sad and smoked a lot of crack over a year period. She got COPD at 34 after about a year of hard use. Really rough to have to lug around an oxygen tank because of a sad year where you lost your head. She has remarked that she can't believe she didn't feel it coming on. She said she'd hack up junk when she woke up, but no tightness or wheezing until it was there one day and never left.

I didn't find it any more addictive or scary than regular cocaine. Both can be scary at times. I actually felt I could control crack a little better, and when the night ended, I felt a depressive crash come on, but I was able to knock myself out with Xanax. With powder, the times I went too hard I had to ride out the heart beating at 140 for hours and xanax would only take the edge off, abut not knock me out. I never used crack two days in a row though. Thankfully I was old enough to simply step away after a half-dozen times. Not addicting in the long term, but really hard to control the impulse while using and to stop.

A few things. Your article is a very male-centric examination of hard drug use. Obviously it would be given it's your story, but for females, it's a much more dangerous game in my experience. All dealers want is your money, end of story. Females, if even semi-attractive, are altogether different targets for many dealers, and it can spiral much harder and way uglier than it does for men. The only semi-functional crack users I have ever met are men. We have to buy drugs. Girls have other options. They get chewed up way faster and find themselves in really bad spots that make it harder to step away because they feel so personally disgusted with what they've done to keep the train rolling.

I have never once had a standard paranoid episode on any drug. Most of my friends were paranoid at one point, but never me. What I was incredibly scared of was health issues, and why I never became an addict. I felt a heart attack was always imminent, and it was what always got me to slow down and eventually quit. Hearing you talk of using for hours, and buying multiple times, and it sounds like many days in a row, I feel my pulse rising.

It was always weird to me how people would get paranoid that someone/LE was coming to get them, while not having the slightest worry about their health while I never once got paranoid in that manner, but was uber-paranoid about every heart beat. That was my paranoia. I'm kind of glad I was tbh or I may have got caught up hard.

Interesting read. Hopefully with a new wife you'll just see the downside as too great and decide it simply isn't worth it before you damage yourself irreparably.
It is the lungs that scare me the most. Or the possibility of a heart-attack. COPD at 34 sounds awful.

I really appreciate you sharing all that info. Part of the problem is that it's hard to find meaningful information about the various subtle consequences of drug use (like how it presents different dangers to women than men, something I am not predisposed to think about for obvious reasons--I am male), because so many of us are reluctant to share.

Realistically, the best information I've gathered about harm reduction using drugs comes from experiential stories from people like you.
Shane Schleger on smoking crack Quote

      
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