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Reuters: Full Tilt Poker, Pokerstars and Absolute Poker charged with illegal gambling

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04-16-2011 , 01:30 AM

#2151

pineapple888

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 13,111

I really wish the goldtards would STFU.

That is all.

Good night, good-bye, and good luck to all.

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2152

LOL_GOLF_BALLS

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 68

GET READY EUROPE!!! I"M COMING TO BANG ALL YOUR GIRLFRIENDS

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2153

doctesseractyl

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Phil Ivey

I am going to ignore your insults and answer your question which is legitimate.

As to the fraud and allegations re: Sun Bank - First of all the government has to explain how the bank was actually defrauded. No bank was ever financially harmed in any material way according to the complaint. The DOJ is missing a critical step. This is not a case where a bank was "defrauded' resulting in a loss of FDIC insured government backed funds. The banks were not harmed. All the government can prove is that payments were processed for companies who were not operating according to their stated purpose. So what? Thousands of companies do the same thing everyday. This is very common and does not constitute a crime in and of itself.

The banks had clearly set up their own rules and guidelines for which payments to process. It is not a crime to violate an internal bank policy. The defense argument remains that there is no underling crime upon which to base a fraud charge. This was not money used for drug traffiking being run through a middle man. Instead it was a bank transaction using a middle man business who was dishonest about his business activity. The money from that transaction was then forwarded to online poker sites. No crime is committed at any step in that transaction UNLESS the DOJ can prove that operating an online poker site violates some federal law. The DOJ MUST be able to prove that operating an online poker site is unlawful gambling and as such online poker sites cannot lawfully do business with US banks. I personally do not believe the DOJ can bridge that gap because online poker does not affirmatively violate any federal statute I have seen or reviewed.

The purchase of Sun Bank does not seem directly tied to the poker sites themselves. Even assuming that it is - purchasing an interest in a bank to provide a service processing a certain type of lawful transactions is not a crime. Does it look suspicious? Yes. But the DOJ needs to prove more than that.

The DOJ's prosecution is based on suspicious activity not actual criminal conduct and that is why I have called it a "thought crime" prosecution. If the DOJ cannot prove that running an online poker site violates some federal law and constitutes unlawful "gambling" this indictment will result in acquittals after trial in my opinion.

Just give your opinion on this part of the indictment, if ur really a lawyer. Will this part of the indictment hold up?

"Paragraph 32 [...] defendants [...] violated titled 31 of the USC Section 5363" http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...SCSIV&PDFS=YES

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2154

Takemusu Aiki

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,722

Solid lol @ people posting "what's the matter? I just deposited heaps of cash and it worked fine".
wp imo, great timing.

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2155

_Towelie_

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,771

the revolution probably isn't going to break out in this thread, so u know.. if u could keep it on topic that'd be great.

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2156

Foldemlow

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justafish26

hold on to your panties, things are about to get rockie for a wile in most aspects of life.

Hmm...move to Canada?

I assume that 90% of those who play for a living and don't have children are basically going to be in Canada by next month.

I just realized that this means I'll have access to Euro sites again, so maybe all isn't that bad after all...

04-16-2011 , 01:31 AM

#2157

Free Phil Ivey

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by asthenic

You make the major flaw of assuming this would go to trial in any way shape or form and of thinking that the DOJ gives a crap if the indictment sticks or is solid. They have already accomplished many of their goals in the last 12hours.

No argument there. The DOJ certainly proved a point and did tremendous harm to online poker in the US. The DOJ has god like power which is easily abused to make political careers 4 the ambitious.

04-16-2011 , 01:32 AM

#2158

ChrisMintZ

adept

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 852

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33P

hows the thing with onyx cup ftp?

and scoop stars?

lmao zero players

04-16-2011 , 01:33 AM

#2159

blayney87

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 116

Terrible news. I hope that European countries don't go the same route.

Good luck to all.

04-16-2011 , 01:33 AM

#2160

Kid_DAngelo

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3

wha aout canadians?

04-16-2011 , 01:33 AM

#2161

NobodyCares

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Towelie_

the revolution probably isn't going to break out in this thread, so u know.. if u could keep it on topic that'd be great.

I'm just here to get my post count up. Think you'll see a boom in "subscription poker" sites i.e. Spadeclub? Seems that's the route to go for the time being.

04-16-2011 , 01:34 AM

#2162

sharpmouth58

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfc

lol

Dude thinks that bank fraud = bank was defrauded

Bank fraud means the use of a bank to commit fraud. The banks usually win in this too. It's called bi winning but both parties are knowingly/ unknowingly involved in illegal acts.

Then who was the victim of the fraud?

04-16-2011 , 01:35 AM

#2163

50B.C.

banned

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 707

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_DAngelo

wha aout canadians?

We will all be made to watch an entire baseball game!

Serious answer? What about us? There is no communist laws going on here

04-16-2011 , 01:35 AM

#2164

Justafish26

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 439

Goverment doesn't get money out of it and that's that.

04-16-2011 , 01:36 AM

#2165

asthenic

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 84

there is a reason this wasnt a moratorium on "online gambling". Sportsbetting, casino, bingo is fine while they probably do similar practices. This just simply is NOT about online gambling and is more about laundering B$ and thinking you are above the DOJ

04-16-2011 , 01:37 AM

#2166

Foldemlow

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMintZ

So when does everyone think we can play online poker?

You can play right now on Bodog and a bunch of sketchy sites.

Legally speaking, this whole move is against FTP/Stars as companies, not online poker as a whole, although it's certainly a huge hit on the industry.

Problem is that for a while, no reputable sites are going to be available to US players, and with a huge number of players having their BR stuck probably for a very long time, traffic is going to be horrible.

If you really need to play for a living, there's absolutely no reason to stay in this joke of a country. Just gtfo and take the opportunity to see the rest of the world and to realize that this is very very very far from being the best country in the world...

04-16-2011 , 01:38 AM

#2167

metron2321

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 27

LOL at going after FTP/Pstars/UB for bank fraud, and shipping a trillion dollars to wall street when they committed bank fraud.

04-16-2011 , 01:38 AM

#2168

scarface-79

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 205

in the words of Larry Flynt's tshirt "fcuk this court"

04-16-2011 , 01:39 AM

#2169

ChrisMintZ

adept

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 852

I'm freaking OUT!!!!

04-16-2011 , 01:39 AM

#2170

PotLuckPete

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foldemlow

Many are going to have a tough time without being classified as a skilled worker or a sponsored family member.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp

04-16-2011 , 01:39 AM

#2171

srsbiznis

stranger

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharpmouth58

Then who was the victim of the fraud?

The fraud was used to conceal the source of the funds which were obtained in violation of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.

04-16-2011 , 01:39 AM

#2172

1outter

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,073

Quote:

Originally Posted by EYESCREW

This thread is so long and moving so fast I can't keep up. Does anyone know what eleven names are mentioned on the indictment? I am wondering if any of the big name pros from Full Tilt were named?

From Forbes:

Federal prosecutors today unsealed a sweeping indictment against Isai Scheinberg and Raymond Bitar, founders of the world’s biggest online poker companies, and moved to try to shut down their businesses.

Two famous poker champions, Howard Lederer and Chris “Jesus” Ferguson, who have strong connections to Full Tilt Poker, were not named in the indictment.

http://blogs.forbes.com/nathanvardi/...nies-indicted/

04-16-2011 , 01:39 AM

#2173

boudge7

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 96

Processed a cash out using echeck on stars this afternoon but I'm worried the bank will decline accepting the transaction because of the following disclaimer in the email confirmation...**IMPORTANT - This transaction will appear on your bank statement as PStars (or an abbreviated version). Seems like a red flag to any bank to accept any $ that could be traced back to PS, FT or UB.

04-16-2011 , 01:40 AM

#2174

$taybuffMM

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 442

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonemoretime

I have been keeping my roll on PStars in Canadian dollars for the last six months as I saw that it was trending higher against the declining US dollar probably because of huge deficits, the spend thrift US President, and rising commodity prices.

Don't know it it will help, but I doubt any US dollar withdrawals will be allowed for years.

This is just like a chapter from "Atlas Shrugged." Don't elect fascistically-minded socialists because they think your money is theirs and you are just holding it for them until they want it back.

Lol learn before you teach. If Obama is a socialist at a 35% max tax rate (lowered to 25% by Bush Tax cuts) then what was General D Eisenhower (A republican) with his 90% max tax bracket. Was he 3.5x the socialist? Go tell a 4 star republican General hes a socialist. He was the last R to balance the budget in the 50's (A Dem did it in 2000 Clinton, then Bush ran up a 4 trillion dollar bil NOT getting Osama.) He raised the debt ceiling 5 times for 4 trillion. He wasted all of it on war and tax cuts. Go back to school jackwagon.

04-16-2011 , 01:40 AM

#2175

Bluffzorz

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,411

well America has lower taxes than a place like England. But for a full time poker player the extra taxes in England are worth the ability to win tax free poker income.

Problem with america is whether we want online poker or legal weed, whatever it is we want will take years and years for our government to figure out what they wanna do.

And don't blame this on Obama. He has more important things to worry about. Plus, it was Bush who enacted the anti poker thing wasn't it?

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