hsdb tracks HS games the o8 games were 1k/2k 2k/4k
seen only once a 200/400 plo8 game run on FT
not the 5/10 nit fests that occasionally run on PS

hasu never told the rng was rigged
he told something like :you must somehow be stupid to think that the rng was rigged, but you must be even more stupid not to consider that there could be a possibility th&t something was wrong with the rng
i thought learning poker was teaching ppl to analyse whatever happens in differents ways ,put ppl on a wider range etcetc...;
lots of producers for the casinos good news for the live pros

My only conclusion is that he must cheat at Ms. Pac Man too.

Okay first: I believe Hasu said it was more likely than not just variance that beat him in the match against Ivey, which is perfectly reasonable given small sample size. He just said that the idea that the deck could have been stacked should be entertained/considered

I'm a huge huge Ivey fan, but just to play devil's advocate,:

IF, they rigged the RNG ever so sliiiightly so that Ivey got higher quality of starting hands or hit the flop at a sliiightly higher rate than normal, would that be detectable if you analyzed an incomplete database? or even if you had the whole database (which you can't), he didn't play a mamoth amount of hands, so variance could justify it? I'm just asking questions.

Would having the better hand some small % of the time more often change results THAT drastically (if you are to assume he would ordinarily be a loser like matusow or something (lol)). Or would this be a stupid way to rig it?

We would have never entertained the thought before of lederer/ferguson stealing $, being scumbags, and somehow screwing up the FTP money printing machine by not having player balances. Maybe we should at least consider the ivey possibility.

Either way, it has been pointed out that why would Ivey admit HASU is better and not make higher tables if he knew he had long term edge due to hand distribution? Also, its hard to imagine that durrr/galfond/urindanger/krantz/whitelime/many others would regard him so highly and PLAY with him, if they even slightly suspected foul play. So it's an extremely tough sell and pointless overall argument without any statistical evidence (which there will be none).

Urm, care to rethink that . . . because, in EVERY casino, the owners are the BIGGEST winners.

Also, Hasu's stances have kind of confused me. I've seen on some other threads about LHE elite players, where he endlessly compliments Ivey's play, saying (I think) that ivey was better than PA, MUCH better than Hawlrienko/Hoss, and called him one of the most influential/best online LHE players ever. Now he's saying he basically is not elite at all and just ordinary/above average/kinda bad for high stakes?

Or were these compliments to Ivey either a.) a hustle/attempt to get action or b.) before he really played Ivey?

Dude seriously, is that your argument?
So following your logic talented and successful players can't scam?
what about Jungleman for example

I find it really hard to believe that the hundreds of people doing obsessive hand analysis and coverage wouldn't have sniffed out ANY kind of mathematical anomalies in Ivey's hand histories or play. It would be so incredibly difficult for there to be ANY kind of bug or programmed edge for a player that wouldn't be quickly discovered.

BTW this thread should be subtitled "IHJ accuses Ivey of cheating at Limit" because that is of far more interest than just the results of high stakes over the last few years.

Lol at IHJ/Hasu hinting at game rigging.

LHE is obv a game of very close edges and when two very good LHE players play HU vs each other, the only way somebody is going to win, let alone big, is going to be variance.

Plus I think you're a little butt hurt at only have $437k in profits when you played up to 2k/4k.

i for one think it's questionable that the biggest winner in online poker part owned the (shady) site he won all that money on and i think that's what IHJ is getting at, he never once said he was cheated by ivey, just that with all the shady stuff going on there that it was questionable.

FFS, it's as if NVG is a religion and ivey is there god, anyone caught thinking rationally or asking questions gets flamed and ostracised.

that's not calling him a cheater it's just being rational and asking questions that should be addressed.

i'd love to see some statistical analysis of his play, ev graphs ect.

I'm not an NVGtard nor think Ivey is god. Most people in here on Iveys side aren't probably thinking rationally but to think that the most prolific poker player of this time, playing the highest stakes on a site that he has been at since the ground up would try anything shady is an absurd idea.

And to think that it's because he only won his money on FTP is suspect, what about the lolsamplesize that is alleged his on his companys main competitor, is again absurd. There is the SMALLEST of evidence that was his screen name, literally just rumors that two screen names were playing at the same time.

yeah i kinda agree with you to an extent, theres just so much nut hugging going on in nvg in regards to ivey.

you would think curiosity would've got the better of someone and some sort of analysis of his play/winrate would of taken place by now.

i think questionable is the perfect description of ivey's results though, it's not saying anything but keeping an open mind.

The hate for hasu is absurd. He clearly stated he thought variance was the most likely explanation. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered whether Ivey did or could have cheated - even if he didn't. He was one of the owners of the web site. That is reason enough to question. It doesn't matter whether it might seem unfathomable - the notion that someone like Potripper could come along was unfathomable to most people before it happened. It is still a point worth considering. Essentially abusing someone for noting this is so ridiculous, especially when they are a High Stakes reg, have actually played Ivey, and actually add value to this forum.

What would be a bigger scandal: Penn St football or we find out Ivey cheated on Full Tilt?

Also, ****, I stand to lose my bankroll on Full Tilt if it turns out that the site is rigged; cuz then no way Tapie buys it.

yep this- and I assume Hasus point of view changed after black friday and revelations about fulltilt- the fact Ivey seems to have played a lot of casino games means it is something that could be entertained- I certainly dont think he saw hole cards- but a little tinkering to the RNG would be rather difficult to notice over a large sample size.

As I mentioned before, there's a parlay involved in getting to 'Ivey is a cheat'. IF it was rigged in his favour (unlikely but possible), I highly doubt he knew about it.

Ivey such a BAWS!

I think that if there was cheating then Ivey most certainly would have known about it. I think it is very unlikely that Full Tilt would give him a rigged account and then never mention it.

One other thing: would anyone happen to know how technically feasible it would be to rig an online deck in favor of a single account?

Hasu isn't just saying it's a possibility. Read his posts, maybe it's something that was lost in translation (assuming German is his first language) but it is pretty clear what he is claiming.

It's extremely unprofessional of him.

Post proof. Oh wait, you have none?

just lol at the hate for hasu.

one of the world's best limit players posts that he was disappointed in ivey's game (ivey even said hasu was better in chat) and that he's suspicious of his results but isn't saying he is cheating and that all he wants to do is provide the info he can for other people.

a bunch of NVGers come in and insult him, saying he's butthurt about results and he must be accusing ivey of cheating. ****ing standard

Really? Unfathomable? That a random account comes along on a 3rd rate site in a very competitive business and starts smashing the highest stakes games around? Does that sound any less absurd then the situation I described? Surely you cannot be serious.

Btw, I was always a fan of IHJ/Hasu since he made one the top online sites up their stakes, just for him. Thats some heart there.

EDIT:
I forgot that I didn't put variance in my earlier post.

Oh hai bruh, before calling me an "NVGer" since I assume you are since I used the word "butthurt," please scroll through my post history and see how much I post in NVG before here.

'I am not saying there were manipulations in the RNG at FTP, actually it's more likely that I just happened to be very unlucky. But it has to be considered.'

'Obviously this is nowhere near an evidence for cheating, because swings like that happen in poker. '

The closest he comes to implying it happened is listing all the reasons he has to be at least suspicious (they were all valid reasons, especially when added up). In your world, what kinda post WOULD just be saying it's a possibility?




Lol? The site that they were playing on, and that ivey raped has just gone down in a huge scandal. Who cares about professionalism, if someone thinks they have information they should post (and hasu is prob more well informed than most) then of course they should say it.

I don't think Ivey cheated. Hasu isn't saying he cheated. But to hate on his post when all he told is his story of being disappointed in Ivey's skill and being suss over Ivey owning every single game like he did limit, is just absurd.

Also, since his Stars account is being brought up in a revived thread (even though the sample size is only ~20k hands, he still won $1 per hand in the tracked games and he played in Mixed games on Stars which weren't tracked (so we don't know whether or not he was crushing in those games as well):

So overall his results on Stars were plenty impressive (assuming that it was him)




Another question for those who said the deck was rigged for him.... why does Sharkscope have him as -$101,574 on Full Tilt tourneys? Wouldn't FTP want him to have good results in the most marketable form of poker?

This ^^^^^ If it looks like duck......... So sad, but pretty obviously true. Nothing but a con artist after all.