Thanks for the response hasu heres a link to the interview you mentioned incase anyones interested

http://www.pokerstatic.com/hot-seat/...me-kagomehasu/

Do you think his complete disregard for the money he was playing with would have made him play any differently in the beginning?
I think Barry Greenstein said in some interview years ago that ivey played weird against any new player in the beginning to get a feel for how they play.
This was krantz et al experience from what i recall. In other words you play the 'king ivey' and hes a fish then later he destroys.

Not going into too much detail here, because it should be obvious that this strategy is not legit. Miracle stories like that only add up to the legacy of an invincible poker player, but what did these matches really have in common?
Right, they were all played on FTP.

Phil Ivey has 290k hands recorded, a sufficiently large sample size of hands. If he was in fact cheating don't you think strange things would've been observed and pointed out within the recorded HH's? From what I've seen or read, no hands that Phil Ivey has played have ever been questioned. Not to mention he was one of the biggest losers in Mixed HA.

If you're going to imply that PI was cheating you then you best come with some solid evidence. It is pretty pathetic that you have access to an entire database of hands you played with him, yet the best evidence you can supply is that he sucks and still beat your azz.

The largest (known) all-time online winner was not mentioned: Russ Hamilton.

so ivey lost that 1million plo hand to isildur with rags then ? 1 million pots merging

I really hope this thread doesn't stray pathetically off course.

If you are going to claim Ivey was cheating, please provide some real evidence other than speculation based on him being an owner.

You already admitted you "block everything but the cards" out during play, so how can we take any analysis you make vis a vis Ivey running meta-game on you seriously?

As far as the bolded portions...

This might be true except for the thousands upon thousands of hours he put in live playing the highest stakes/all comers in ring games in Bobby's Room or Flynt's Game for the better part of a decade....and becoming the most dominant all around tournament player in history. Where were you guys when he sat 4 times a week at the B,why werent you asking for 10/20k HU if he was such a huge fish and it was well known in , lol, German poker circles, lol.

This guys ships WSOP HORSE donkaments like every other yr if he is motivated....DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF A FREAKISH TALENT THAT MAKES HIM?

Yes, he is an outlier...why is that so hard to fathom...probably bc he doesnt look like PA, he isnt 23 right now, and he didnt drop out of Cal Tech....

You got levelled and hustled by Ivey and just cant believe your little uber mensch mind got raped by a negro who doesnt use all the jargon you think is so indispensible in poker and who doesnt fit your preconceived notions of what a "poker wizard" can look/be like.

P.S. PA is just as much as a "live pro" as PI..he began playing live in Finland and played a tonne live while the games where good. So thats #1 and #2 and the number 1 PLO player who were all "live pros".

Plus there are others who can be described as live pros on the list possible (rafi Amit) that I dont wish to investigate. So when you say PI is such an anolmaly your either being disingenous or youre flat out wrong.

Maybe your just not as bring as you presume yourself to be....I know I wasnt in my early 20s.

i genuinely miss the days of full tilt nosebleeds action, it just gave online poker that extra icing on the cake. it was like the major league of online cash poker. wonder if it ever will be back. hope ivey and the likes will be back soon as well.

Well, what about the millions and millions and millions Ivy won all over the place in both non-internet casino tournaments and cash games?

Maybe Phil Ivy owns a giant magnet that sucks the aces out of the deck when he needs them. A magic magnet that works all over the world and on the internet!

What about that idea, huh? Bet you never thought of that.

how did Ivey learn all these games? did the casino's he played at run them?

i can't se full size image why? only stud is big

Same here btw.

I'm shocked that you think there may be something behind these wins other than some poker skillz sickness. As you previously stated variance played its roll in his win against you but surely you played him in more games over the years than HU LH. You must have played him in 2-7, Horse etc...did you think anything of his play in any of these games.

Is this just you who thinks this or have you heard any other HS regs talking in these terms. I was just checking ptr and your 'ihatejuice' account is listed as one of his enemies for around 350k and his biggest 'enemy' is Larslusak for nearly 2mill.
Lars has put in alot of hands vs many of the leading tilt pros but i've never heard him say anything about shady stats on Ivey.

NVG will go mad on what you HAVEN'T said ITT but maybe if there was some specific reason you feel suspicious it might make more sense.

is there anyway to watch the tables on highstakesdb if you are from the usa?

Chau Giang is impressive.

Haters gonna hate.

Ivey is one of the few "old" pros whose favorite hobbies is video games. This helps him with the on-line game. Also Ivey likes to perpetuate the myth he just shows up and wins -- no effort or study involved. This is BS. I remember reading early on in his career that after a tournament(even when Ivey won) he would get out a notebook and spend several hours going over each hand.

Here is an example of Ivey not giving up:
“When I first started playing $400-$800 back in the day in Atlantic City, Henry “The Toy Man” Orenstein used to beat me all the time. That man kept me broke for six months. But I would drop down and build it back up in the $75-$150 game for a week in order to get back in the $400-$800 game. I’d play and he’d break me again! This kept on happening. I don’t think I beat him in one hand in six months. But I never gave up. I kept on coming back. I knew I’d get there."

Krantz on Ivey studying players:
http://www.deucescracked.com/blogs/j...bout-Phil-Ivey


A Phil Story from Barry G:
"He came over to the house with his wife Luciaetta, and I needled him when I said, “See, this is how a successful poker player lives.” He said, “This is out of my league now, but some day I’ll own a big house like this, too.”

Phil was especially interested in the sit-down Ms. Pac Man game that was in my gameroom. I mentioned that I bought it for my girlfriend because she was the best that I had ever seen at it. He said he was the best that anyone had ever seen. I got a call from someone at the airport who wanted me to pick them up. Phil and Luciaetta were having fun with my kids and I asked them if they minded watching my kids until I got back. Phil asked, “Can I play the Ms. Pac Man game?” I said, “Of course.” When I returned an hour later, Phil was still sitting playing the game. He smiled and said, “Well, your girlfriend doesn’t have the high score anymore.”


http://www.barrygreenstein.com/player_analysis/
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...e-in-phil-ivey

It seems that there would be great value in David Benyamine teaching Gus Hansen PLO, and Gus returning the favor by teaching David how to play Omaha/8.

much cheaper

pretty cool read....

I noticed the O8 stats only have limit (which is the least played variation these days)

Can someone post the PLO8/NLO8 stats. Jut curious since this is what I play the most.....

Thats a really interesting post, thanks.

yep he crushed on stars, bet he wishes ft never added draw

iirc a few of his big losing session were pure drunk monkey tilt

hasu obviously wasn't saying he cuts out metagame lol, might be different in lhe but any good nl player is thinking about metagame. he purely meant external thoughts to the game he was currently playing, that doesn't include meta but might include other factors that could help you spot a cheat.

i don't think ivey was cheating. but if he was, im going to be so ****ing devastated. i already knew his (online) nl, lhe and possibly plo games weren't as good as the best online players but just assumed he ran hot in those and crushed everyone in games that haven't been explored much by the online community.

Here's what I don't understand. If Ivey is such a huge fish for you, why don't you travel to Vegas and play him live?

I remember your asking him to add some 3000/6000 tables and his telling you that he likes to be sitting across people in a live setting when playing for this kind of money, so he actually refused to up the stakes despite the RNG being rigged.

It's also funny how you consider that you have such an understanding of GTO for LHE that you can judge someone considered to be the very best player in the world to have insane leaks and not doubt for one second that you're right.

Ivey also admitted to you that you were the better player when you guys played some of your last sessions, which would be an incredibly stupid thing to do if he indeed was cheating.
Why confirm that you're not winning because you're better but instead through variance if you're rigging the game? It's not as if nobody would believe him if he said he was better than you, right? Or are you that delusional?
I know you have a very low opinion of the guy's intellect, but that would just be ******ed.

Anyway, talk about disappointment, it sucks to see that you're putting so much stock into such a stupid idea (incoherent on so many levels for an infinity of reasons). You're turning out to be a bit of a whiny b*tch, to be perfectly honest.

And again, I'm sure the guy would love to play you HU live, so why don't you do that since you have such a huge edge on him? Plane ticket too expensive?

And if he runs away from you, you can always go back to your country and make a thread on 2+2 about how Ivey ran away from a socially inept kid with a taste for Japanese pedo porn. I'm sure it'll be worth the trip...