Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)
View Poll Results: Do you want the AGCC to regulate the new FTP?
Yes
1,156 56.58%
No
887 43.42%

07-09-2012 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath
I seem to have misinterpreted Mondo's post. I stand corrected.

Would you agree that this means we should know shortly after midnight (not by late tomorrow) what has been filed by each party?
Yes. I'm fairly certain of this, unless there's something I'm missing.

I think it would be irresponsible of an attorney to not file something, even if a deal is in place.
07-09-2012 , 10:00 PM
If I put a bottle on ice, would that jinx it?
07-09-2012 , 10:01 PM
diamond flush:

Anything you can tell us?
07-09-2012 , 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiller866
The penalty if they don't answer the charges is that the DOJ could file a motion for summary judgement, but if they have reached a settlement with the DOJ, they don't need to worry about the DOJ ever filing that motion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath
AIUI, if they don't file, the DoJ could move for a summary judgement. But if they have a settlement, the DoJ wouldn't do that.
Ah. Thanks.
07-09-2012 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkElf
It is not just a question of a government that is independent of the sites, but one that can effectively enforce the relevant laws.
...
But when it comes to the big things, Alderney is completely powerless. Ultimately the only thing they can do is suspend/revoke the license. No muscle.
I guess that I assume that any government that is large enough to be financially independent of the sites would also have the power to enforce the regulations it makes.
07-09-2012 , 10:08 PM
So is there a reason to stay up and a site we should be F5'n?
07-09-2012 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
If I put a bottle on ice, would that jinx it?
You'd probably just have a warm bottle of champagne tomorrow. I wouldn't expect anything definitive tonight.

Like I said before, unless whatever is filed says hey have settled, we won't really know if they have or haven't.
07-09-2012 , 10:16 PM
July 10 article from Irishtimes.com . Nothing new.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319718863.html
07-09-2012 , 10:16 PM
So we are looking for something to be filed by 12AM EST correct?
07-09-2012 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxx
July 10 article from Irishtimes.com . Nothing new.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319718863.html
There just went my erection....
07-09-2012 , 10:21 PM
that article is worthless

article could have been written months ago with the info it provided minus the last snippet at the end about Ray Bitar working hard for the last year to repay players.
07-09-2012 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskermoney00
There just went my erection....
There's a medicine for that. That article has nothing 'breaking' at all about it and is just telling us what we already know...
07-09-2012 , 10:23 PM
Huh.... I guess I didnt know about them laying off....
07-09-2012 , 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deke971
So is there a reason to stay up and a site we should be F5'n?
Unless you are determined to be the first to pop a cork if good news should happen to come out in filings tonight, just go to bed. Check the Poker Headlines forum in the morning.
07-09-2012 , 10:38 PM
Is there anyone here going to be up, and checking those docs?
07-09-2012 , 10:54 PM
07/09/2012 196 MEMORANDUM OF LAW in Support re: 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint.. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit Certificate of Service)(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)
07/09/2012 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. Responses due by 7/30/2012(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)

So we've completed the individuals not under criminal indictment.
07-09-2012 , 10:55 PM
Thats just CFs dismissal?
07-09-2012 , 10:58 PM
Howard:

blah blah blah i want to keep my 42 million

blah blah blah none of these charges meet reasonable thresholds to warrant a legitimate claim against his assets.

blah blah blah govt has nothing (much) to implicate directly with fraud to warrant xx charge.

blah blah blah no where did i misrepresent anything to customers.

blah blah blah i built a successful company

blah blah blah i was paid distributions as a part owner

blah blah blah FTP operated under gray area of the law that is either unsettled or ambiguous, doesnt mean it was gambling

blah blah blah here are a bunch (99 million) cited cases which "support" my positions in various ways, lets just see what sticks against the wall.

side gems:

Quote:
2. The government never links Lederer to any of the other allegedly false
statements referenced in the First Amended Complaint.
The complaint includes a few additional allegedly fraudulent statements purportedly
made by FTP employees, but none of them implicates Lederer. For example, the government
alleges that, “[o]n or about May 6, 2008,” an unnamed person at FTP “created a form e-mail
which its staff then e-mailed to players.” Id. ¶ 100(a). The email stated that FTP kept player
funds “in several deposit accounts throughout the world, all of which are separate and distinct
from our operating accounts.” Id. Lederer is nowhere alleged to have authored, edited, or sent
this email. It cannot support a wire fraud claim against him.
The complaint further alleges that another (or possibly the same) unnamed FTP employee
authored a second email “[o]n or about May 23, 2008,” which stated that “all player account
funds are segregated and held separately from our operating accounts.” Id. ¶ 100(b). Again, the
government nowhere alleges that Lederer had anything to do with this allegedly misleading
email. It, too, cannot support a wire fraud claim against him.
The same goes for Web-forum posts attributed to an FTP employee identifying himself as
“FTPDoug” on July 18, 2008. Id. ¶ 101(c-d). What “FTPDoug” wrote on an internet poker
forum cannot form the basis of a fraud claim against Lederer. Indeed, it is nowhere alleged that
Lederer authored this statement, or even knew it was made.
The government’s final fraud allegation concerns a statement allegedly issued by FTP
“[i]n response to” the events of April 15, 2011, i.e. after the government unsealed its indictment
against FTP and seized FTP’s website. The statement supposedly told FTP customers:
Case 1:11-cv-02564-LBS Document 190 Filed 07/09/12 Page 18 of 34
12
677182.02
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts, Full Tilt Poker
would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure.
Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is
still available to all of our players . . . . We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker
that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to
deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and
accessible at all times.
Id. ¶ 104. As a cursory amount of Internet research would have revealed had the government
cared to check, this statement was posted on FTP’s website sometime in mid-2009, nearly two
years before the events of April 15, 2011. See Full Tilt Poker, Statement from Full Tilt Poker
Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues (June 30, 2009, 2:28 AM), http://web.archive.org/
web/20090630022812/http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/official-statement-online-poker-withdrawals
(accessed by entering http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/officia...er-withdrawals
into the Internet Archive). Indeed, the statement’s plain terms reveal that it was not made in
response to the events of April 15, 2011; it would have been nonsensical to assure players that
“[p]rocessing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still
available to all of our players” or that their “online playing experience will not change” when the
government had seized FTP’s website,
replacing the company’s logo with a giant Department of
Justice seal. This lackadaisical approach to alleging fraudulent statements permeates the
complaint and demonstrates that the government’s fraud claim cannot withstand scrutiny.
3. The Fourth Claim for Relief in rem should be dismissed because the
government’s wire fraud allegations fail to satisfy Rule 9(b).
Quote:
The government’s failure to plead facts sufficient to establish that poker is “roughly
similar” to the activities listed in § 1955(b)(2) is not surprising: running an internet poker site
like FTP falls outside IGBA’s definition of “gambling.” Nearly all the activities listed in §
1955(b)(2) involve games where the business—the “house”—is betting directly against the
customers. In bookmaking, slot machines, roulette, dice tables, lotteries, policy, bolita, or
numbers games, the house directly bets against its customers such that when the customer/bettor
loses, the house wins. This makes sense given that the phrase for these companies in IGBA is a
“gambling business,” suggesting that the business itself is gambling. There are numerous
reasons Congress may have wanted to penalize these games. In these games the businesses have
an incentive to cheat, and it is likely difficult for customers to monitor them.
These games were
also tended to fund organized crime, a problem that animated IGBA’s passage.
Quote:
Although the government alleges
that Lederer participated in a scheme to defraud FTP’s customers, specific factual allegations
against him are nowhere to be found. How, exactly, did he mislead players regarding their
deposits and accounts? What did he say to them, and when did he say it? Was any information
Lederer allegedly provided false when given, and if so, did Lederer know it?
07-09-2012 , 11:00 PM
message to howard:

you misled us by using your fat face on your website you insufferable prick
07-09-2012 , 11:11 PM
Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

He went from spilling his guts on 2+2, TV interviews on Fox and numerous other interviews to basically hiding away in Asia and saying nothing.

He didn't even have anything to say to the players......

He claimed he hadn't even been following closely what has happened to Bitar which is beyond bizarre considering Dwan's rep is on the line.

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.
07-09-2012 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesright
Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.
You see him STFU as a bad thing?
07-09-2012 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo
message to howard:

you misled us by using your fat face on your website you insufferable prick
I second this motion.
07-09-2012 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesright
Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

He went from spilling his guts on 2+2, TV interviews on Fox and numerous other interviews to basically hiding away in Asia and saying nothing.

He didn't even have anything to say to the players......

He claimed he hadn't even been following closely what has happened to Bitar which is beyond bizarre considering Dwan's rep is on the line.

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.
Maybe he was told to STFU because a deal IS going through and that they are going to renew his FTP contract, IMO.
07-09-2012 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesright
Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

He went from spilling his guts on 2+2, TV interviews on Fox and numerous other interviews to basically hiding away in Asia and saying nothing.

He didn't even have anything to say to the players......

He claimed he hadn't even been following closely what has happened to Bitar which is beyond bizarre considering Dwan's rep is on the line.

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.
Who cares? He obviously doesn't know very much about the situation. What do you want him to tell you?
07-09-2012 , 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsToBeSaid
07/09/2012 196 MEMORANDUM OF LAW in Support re: 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint.. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit Certificate of Service)(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)
07/09/2012 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. Responses due by 7/30/2012(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)

So we've completed the individuals not under criminal indictment.
What time was that submitted?

      
m