FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP) - Page 1292 - Poker News

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FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

View Poll Results: Do you want the AGCC to regulate the new FTP?

Yes

1,156 56.58%

887 43.42%

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07-09-2012 , 09:59 PM

#32276

bizzle03

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

I seem to have misinterpreted Mondo's post. I stand corrected.

Would you agree that this means we should know shortly after midnight (not by late tomorrow) what has been filed by each party?

Yes. I'm fairly certain of this, unless there's something I'm missing.

I think it would be irresponsible of an attorney to not file something, even if a deal is in place.

07-09-2012 , 10:00 PM

#32277

KingKongGrinder

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,598

If I put a bottle on ice, would that jinx it?

07-09-2012 , 10:01 PM

#32278

bizzle03

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,000

diamond flush:

Anything you can tell us?

07-09-2012 , 10:01 PM

#32279

28renton

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,627

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamiller866

The penalty if they don't answer the charges is that the DOJ could file a motion for summary judgement, but if they have reached a settlement with the DOJ, they don't need to worry about the DOJ ever filing that motion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

AIUI, if they don't file, the DoJ could move for a summary judgement. But if they have a settlement, the DoJ wouldn't do that.

Ah. Thanks.

07-09-2012 , 10:04 PM

#32280

DoTheMath

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkElf

It is not just a question of a government that is independent of the sites, but one that can effectively enforce the relevant laws.
...
But when it comes to the big things, Alderney is completely powerless. Ultimately the only thing they can do is suspend/revoke the license. No muscle.

I guess that I assume that any government that is large enough to be financially independent of the sites would also have the power to enforce the regulations it makes.

07-09-2012 , 10:08 PM

#32281

deke971

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,380

So is there a reason to stay up and a site we should be F5'n?

07-09-2012 , 10:10 PM

#32282

bizzle03

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder

If I put a bottle on ice, would that jinx it?

You'd probably just have a warm bottle of champagne tomorrow. I wouldn't expect anything definitive tonight.

Like I said before, unless whatever is filed says hey have settled, we won't really know if they have or haven't.

07-09-2012 , 10:16 PM

#32283

xxx

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,253

July 10 article from Irishtimes.com . Nothing new.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319718863.html

07-09-2012 , 10:16 PM

#32284

Huskermoney00

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 841

So we are looking for something to be filed by 12AM EST correct?

07-09-2012 , 10:18 PM

#32285

Huskermoney00

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 841

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxx

July 10 article from Irishtimes.com . Nothing new.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319718863.html

There just went my erection....

07-09-2012 , 10:21 PM

#32286

NxtWrldChamp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9,082

that article is worthless

article could have been written months ago with the info it provided minus the last snippet at the end about Ray Bitar working hard for the last year to repay players.

07-09-2012 , 10:22 PM

#32287

Haupt_234

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 6,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskermoney00

There just went my erection....

There's a medicine for that. That article has nothing 'breaking' at all about it and is just telling us what we already know...

07-09-2012 , 10:23 PM

#32288

Huskermoney00

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 841

Huh.... I guess I didnt know about them laying off....

07-09-2012 , 10:33 PM

#32289

DoTheMath

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by deke971

So is there a reason to stay up and a site we should be F5'n?

Unless you are determined to be the first to pop a cork if good news should happen to come out in filings tonight, just go to bed. Check the Poker Headlines forum in the morning.

07-09-2012 , 10:38 PM

#32290

Huskermoney00

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 841

Is there anyone here going to be up, and checking those docs?

07-09-2012 , 10:54 PM

#32291

NeedsToBeSaid

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 997

07/09/2012 196 MEMORANDUM OF LAW in Support re: 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint.. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit Certificate of Service)(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)
07/09/2012 195 MOTION to Dismiss Verified First Amended Complaint. Document filed by Christopher Ferguson. Responses due by 7/30/2012(Withers, Julie) (Entered: 07/09/2012)

So we've completed the individuals not under criminal indictment.

07-09-2012 , 10:55 PM

#32292

Huskermoney00

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 841

Thats just CFs dismissal?

07-09-2012 , 10:58 PM

#32293

aggo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10,422

Howard:

blah blah blah i want to keep my 42 million

blah blah blah none of these charges meet reasonable thresholds to warrant a legitimate claim against his assets.

blah blah blah govt has nothing (much) to implicate directly with fraud to warrant xx charge.

blah blah blah no where did i misrepresent anything to customers.

blah blah blah i built a successful company

blah blah blah i was paid distributions as a part owner

blah blah blah FTP operated under gray area of the law that is either unsettled or ambiguous, doesnt mean it was gambling

blah blah blah here are a bunch (99 million) cited cases which "support" my positions in various ways, lets just see what sticks against the wall.

side gems:

Quote:

2. The government never links Lederer to any of the other allegedly false
statements referenced in the First Amended Complaint.
The complaint includes a few additional allegedly fraudulent statements purportedly
made by FTP employees, but none of them implicates Lederer. For example, the government
alleges that, “[o]n or about May 6, 2008,” an unnamed person at FTP “created a form e-mail
which its staff then e-mailed to players.” Id. ¶ 100(a). The email stated that FTP kept player
funds “in several deposit accounts throughout the world, all of which are separate and distinct
from our operating accounts.” Id. Lederer is nowhere alleged to have authored, edited, or sent
this email. It cannot support a wire fraud claim against him.
The complaint further alleges that another (or possibly the same) unnamed FTP employee
authored a second email “[o]n or about May 23, 2008,” which stated that “all player account
funds are segregated and held separately from our operating accounts.” Id. ¶ 100(b). Again, the
government nowhere alleges that Lederer had anything to do with this allegedly misleading
email. It, too, cannot support a wire fraud claim against him.
The same goes for Web-forum posts attributed to an FTP employee identifying himself as
“FTPDoug” on July 18, 2008. Id. ¶ 101(c-d). What “FTPDoug” wrote on an internet poker
forum cannot form the basis of a fraud claim against Lederer. Indeed, it is nowhere alleged that
Lederer authored this statement, or even knew it was made.
The government’s final fraud allegation concerns a statement allegedly issued by FTP
“[i]n response to” the events of April 15, 2011, i.e. after the government unsealed its indictment
against FTP and seized FTP’s website. The statement supposedly told FTP customers:
Case 1:11-cv-02564-LBS Document 190 Filed 07/09/12 Page 18 of 34
12
677182.02
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts, Full Tilt Poker
would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure.
Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is
still available to all of our players . . . . We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker
that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to
deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and
accessible at all times.
Id. ¶ 104. As a cursory amount of Internet research would have revealed had the government
cared to check, this statement was posted on FTP’s website sometime in mid-2009, nearly two
years before the events of April 15, 2011. See Full Tilt Poker, Statement from Full Tilt Poker
Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues (June 30, 2009, 2:28 AM), http://web.archive.org/
web/20090630022812/http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/official-statement-online-poker-withdrawals
(accessed by entering http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/officia...er-withdrawals
into the Internet Archive). Indeed, the statement’s plain terms reveal that it was not made in
response to the events of April 15, 2011; it would have been nonsensical to assure players that
“[p]rocessing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still
available to all of our players” or that their “online playing experience will not change” when the
government had seized FTP’s website, replacing the company’s logo with a giant Department of
Justice seal. This lackadaisical approach to alleging fraudulent statements permeates the
complaint and demonstrates that the government’s fraud claim cannot withstand scrutiny.
3. The Fourth Claim for Relief in rem should be dismissed because the
government’s wire fraud allegations fail to satisfy Rule 9(b).

Quote:

The government’s failure to plead facts sufficient to establish that poker is “roughly
similar” to the activities listed in § 1955(b)(2) is not surprising: running an internet poker site
like FTP falls outside IGBA’s definition of “gambling.” Nearly all the activities listed in §
1955(b)(2) involve games where the business—the “house”—is betting directly against the
customers. In bookmaking, slot machines, roulette, dice tables, lotteries, policy, bolita, or
numbers games, the house directly bets against its customers such that when the customer/bettor
loses, the house wins. This makes sense given that the phrase for these companies in IGBA is a
“gambling business,” suggesting that the business itself is gambling. There are numerous
reasons Congress may have wanted to penalize these games. In these games the businesses have
an incentive to cheat, and it is likely difficult for customers to monitor them. These games were
also tended to fund organized crime, a problem that animated IGBA’s passage.

Quote:

Although the government alleges
that Lederer participated in a scheme to defraud FTP’s customers, specific factual allegations
against him are nowhere to be found. How, exactly, did he mislead players regarding their
deposits and accounts? What did he say to them, and when did he say it? Was any information
Lederer allegedly provided false when given, and if so, did Lederer know it?

07-09-2012 , 11:00 PM

#32294

aggo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10,422

message to howard:

you misled us by using your fat face on your website you insufferable prick

07-09-2012 , 11:11 PM

#32295

yesright

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,345

Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

He went from spilling his guts on 2+2, TV interviews on Fox and numerous other interviews to basically hiding away in Asia and saying nothing.

He didn't even have anything to say to the players......

He claimed he hadn't even been following closely what has happened to Bitar which is beyond bizarre considering Dwan's rep is on the line.

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.

07-09-2012 , 11:13 PM

#32296

Haupt_234

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 6,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesright

Anyone see the recent Tom Dwan interview?

Its pretty clear he has been told to STFU

There are no heros...... these worms don't give a **** about you or me.

They took the dirty money and are laughing at us.

You see him STFU as a bad thing?

07-09-2012 , 11:13 PM

#32297

jcarabel03

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggo

message to howard:

you misled us by using your fat face on your website you insufferable prick

I second this motion.

07-09-2012 , 11:14 PM

#32298

george24

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesright

Maybe he was told to STFU because a deal IS going through and that they are going to renew his FTP contract, IMO.

07-09-2012 , 11:19 PM

#32299

NxtWrldChamp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9,082

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesright

Who cares? He obviously doesn't know very much about the situation. What do you want him to tell you?

07-09-2012 , 11:24 PM

#32300

bizzle03

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,000

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedsToBeSaid

What time was that submitted?

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