I don't care if you're Mother Theresa. I do not want you behind me as I am playing my cards, same as I don't want my wife hanging over my shoulder reading the paper while I am doing so.

A gain, I am sure 99% of "poker journalists" are beyond reproach and solid individuals. It's really nothing to do with that.

Well, it is, but it's not personal.

In the pics posted of the suspected colluder, I can assure you, there's no chance I wouldn't have said something. He actually seems to have positioned himself in precisely a spot to see the hole cards.

And even if he hadn't, who needs the damned additional distraction? People know there will be cameras and announcers and a gallery, fair enough. I just think the player has a right to a reasonable amount of "personal space," especially behind them.

Hi, I was runner up of the BOPC and heard about that too. Do you remember exactly when the team of reporters got kicked out? Was it during day 1D?
If I remember correctly (Thibavol can confirm), he got moved to our table towards the end of the day. He had a big stack but seemed fairly pissed off. To be honest it seemed like he totally spewed his stack. Maybe cause his team of reporters got kicked out? I don't know. But the hand in question went:
Thibavol raised under the gun, he 3 bet from the cut off, thibavol 4 bets big, and he snap shoves with A10 and gets called by AK. They were both huge stack at the time with a zillion BBs..

You obv misread me.

1. Like I said I did NOT complain and obeyed out of respect... I will still note that this was a first for me in about 50 major tournaments (that including 100$, 10k and 50k buyins....) Frankly I dont care THAT much about who you are, I made an exception cuz this was going to raise a fuss because it is Hellmuth, pretty obvious no floor has ever made that kind of request for a random ppl (if they would, I would snap call his TD on the spot. I know them all and they know me so I'm pretty confident in the outcome)

2. Reporter for major media outlet is NOT random dude, sry.

3. Yes I do understand, but tell me how you will report hands if you are behind noone's back. Just tell me how I'm curious.

My point being :

PPls bitch about 'not accurate' coverages but want you like 10 feet away from the table, which in a PLO event is, to say the least, unconvenient especially when dealers don't give a crap about you having to write down something like 13 cards on the felt in about 20 seconds.

So I feel that I some point there need to be trust between players and media. Which, as I noted, is mostly the case. Trust is not sthing that is gained lightly so being treated as a random would-be-colluding is, sorry to point it out, offending. It's in my view the floor's job to idendify any incorrect behavior from bystanders. Also why the hell would you worry about a 'legit' reporter doing his job and not about random watchers on the rail??? Doesn't make sense to me.

Of course giving press badges to outlets which aren't real ones (you would be amazed as who gains access to tables) is a huge part of the problem and is what in my opinion what tournament authorities should think about first.

Finally, trying to see Hellmuths hole card is just totally pointless, obviously you've never been in position to even remotely try..... Even if you did, then what...???? Tell the guy across the table "omg he raised you with airball on that hand with xxxx, euh no wait he had a draw I think er...." Cmon lets get real !!!

OK, then why should I ???

Have to be "behind" someone somewhere, sry to point it out....

agreed

agreed some more, and I can assure you this is nothing like my position when Hellmuth asked me to move. Funny thing is I was so far already he had me come closer to actually read my WSOP badge (which is quite big you dont need glasses to read it)

Absolutely, and that was the case. Which is why Hellmuth was just being paranoid imo. Do I really need to make a case that he is not in right mind all the time???

In other words, it's really OBVIOUS to see if someone is peering over (again in Hellmuth's case that would require some serious eye/neck gymnastics). I would rather die in shameful agony than being caught doing that, I like my job and guess what, I am careful at being able to keep it. Like I said, gaining trust from PPLs is obv not an easy task but to me outright suspicion on zero basis is just plain wrong. I treat player as professionals, I see no reason for them to not do the same.

One last note, ppls seems not to worry about big ass zoom lenses being few feet away behind their back, and if you'd ever taken photographs on a poker table you would worry more about THAT imo. If I was to cheat, this would be the way, not reading over someones shoulder !!!!!! Also this is all based on the pretense that reporters actually care about keeping in mind specific hands to tell their pals. If we were to do that we'd have to act like the jackasses who got caught.... staying hours on around the same table, across the same guy, and actually work out some kind of cheating/signaling system. That sounds so dumb and obv to me that I'm actually amazed the whole Ali T shenanigan did not get caught earlier, especially if very very pro people like Kremser were onto them.

French Noob:

Hellmuth would find a reason to bitch if you were in the restaurant having lunch. He's not a reasonable example.

Maybe a golf analogy is in order:

When you're teeing off, you don't want anyone making any noise or in your line of sight, especially directly behind you. But it is generally accepted as just fine if a person is like twenty feet directly behind you (maybe even just fifteen).

Granted, the golf example is for concentration, but it's not so far off.

Using only the material posted in this thread, especially the video with both the fat guy and the woman BOTH "jockeying for position," I would not sit still for it. They're too close at a point in the hand where there the cards have not been exposed.

I mean, there's a reason all those douchebags at golf tournaments at least try to wait until the player has struck the ball to scream GET IN THE HOLE!!! or YOU DA MAN!!!

And they don't even have "press credentials."

Serious question: do you play a lot of poker?

So the reason is I'm defending my point is clear : this major incident is obv going to change the way we work. The last thing I'd want is loss of trust between ppls and reporters. Also right it seems to me we're all walking on thin ice, and I don't want the whole thing to crack.

Some ppls cheat. Some reporters are unethical. It's pretty easy to see that this occasion is a good one to actually take a good look on how things are being done, and ensuring that everything is done so that it has close to zero chance to happen again. This will require imo serious thinking on both sides, it has always been my opinion that media, ppls and other actors (TDs, security, organisation etc) have a common interest in working together, not against each other, to put the game we all love in the best of possible lights.

As for the "who needs the damned additional distraction?" comment by Rushmore, I am a ppl as well so I cannot agree more. So when I feel a ppl is feeling uneasy about my presence, I move around by myself, it's simple as that. But again having PH of all people look at my badge and see I'm from France and therefore suspect me (on zero basis) of willingly peering to advantage a french player is downright insulting, at least as much as me writing "this guy is a donkey" in an official coverage, which I'd never do.

Why not behind french homeboy you are following? I know whenever I sweat a friend I am usually directly behind them.

Given I'm on 2+2 my first answer (yes) will become a "no" ^^

Enough I guess to know of the problems on both side

All year long we bust our asses off (believe it or not) to do our job the best we can. Yes there are some obv problems on both sides, it this not a good time to sort some of them out?

Free Mehmet and Yamzit imo.

Fact is poker players dont NEED a reporter to be standing anywhere near the table.

Bust hands can be reported by simple asking and feature/FT's are announced anyway.

Viewers are not very interested in 'from behind' pics usually

One thing you try not to do is move around the table constantly, which is just as distracting. Being directly behind someone's back (with reasonable distance) is obv is actually the best way NOT to see their hole cards !!

I will add that I'm being extra-careful at not reacting if I ever do happen to see someone's cards.... I know most of the reporters that go around major tournaments, they actually are not so many at all. As benjo pointed out in his excellent article, we're only human and may not have perfect behiavor 100% of the time, obv, but all of them have earned respect from the field through hard work and respectful behavior I believe.

I found myself at a feature table at the main event a few years back, and honestly wasn't really very distracted. I can assure you, I would be much more distracted by the stuff I have seen here.

Maybe it's just totally subjective, but I think having some photographer in my blind spot would drive me absolutely crazy.

Which is why they sport all those beautiful logos plastered all over. For fashion value I guess.... Don't worry, we don't NEED to be talking about those who don't want to be talked about either

Which brings us back to PPLs bitching about un-accurate hand reporting. Sick life.

LOL @ simple asking. In poker, much more than in any other domains, seeing is believing. It is even one of the first rules as a reporter : specifying when a hand is seen or just told, since the difference is often quite amazing....

Also bust hands are definitely not the most interesting part of poker..... Also if there was only FT tables reported in an event like the ME, might as well close shop and head for the bar imo.

It was me and my colleague that told the TD who those guys were and the TD called with colleagues from another tour. At day 1D the "journalists" weren't welcome anymore, the players could stay playing. We had another tournament (Unibet Open Valencia) and so just arrived at day 1C late in the evening and right away told the TD what was happening.

Indeed, which is why I'm so amazed that they could go on and on. And that they were removed several times before (this needs solid confirmation though) and yet were able to do it again.

After all, and this will please our ever-so-funny french bashing friends, it's finally a french TD who exposed the whole thing after they were being free to act (at least without serious consequences) in WPT (barcelona), EPT (tallin) and BOPC (belgium). Added irony, it is the one tournament that got the most bad-mouthing (for right or wrong..) lately...

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lol, wp

Only a turk could of come up with such a way, Sometimes I feel shameful that people like this give a bad name to my country

Anagram of Ali Tekintamgac? Okay:

Magical Taken It

Standard short stack shove.
He's pretty much got no choice but to shove and pretty much Ali calls with any hand.
WTF Ali aka "The Barcelona Bull" won it fair n square.!! Stack'em Ali.

You need to leave the thread.

punked

so sick

This was significant.