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Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post. Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.

06-21-2015 , 03:21 PM
Cliffs courtsey GMLAW and MastaAces

*** SHORT CLIFFS FOR THOSE JUST ENTERING THIS THREAD ***

These are the most important posts until now. Please message me if I missed one.

The case begins with a tweet from David Baker (Bakes on 2+2):

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcdog Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
David "Bakes" Baker currently throwing some real shade towards Stinger88 on twitter - basically saying that he's behind another Stars account. Popcorn is in the microwave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andro Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
Well, Stinger has some explaining to do.

Brian "Stinger88" Hastings reacts to this news, but does not deny nor confirm the allegations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger88 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
All,

I have been following the thread some but been very busy this summer playing the WSOP. I'm aware of the allegations, but at this time I have nothing to add to the conversation publicly. I stopped caring what strangers on the internet said or thought about me many years ago; otherwise I probably would've jumped off the deep end by now. What I do care about is something like this being a major story in the poker world at a time in which the WSOP is in full force and we should be trying to promote and grow the game of poker, rather than drag it through the mud. Think what you want about me, but one thing I have in common with most people reading this is that we love the game of poker and want to be able to play it freely in the comfort of our own homes. I'm moving back to PA soon to play 400/800 mix live and be closer to Sonya's and my parents, and state regulation of online poker would be a nice cherry on top.

I think especially those of us who are professional poker players should be taking steps to try to promote and grow the game, rather than feeling sorry for themselves because Cardrunners was founded, Black Friday happened, everybody is too good now, etc. With enough hard work, I truly believe that just about anyone (at least anyone smart enough to be browsing 2+2) can make a living playing poker in 2015. I think it's unfortunate that certain people have been on bad runs and choose to take their frustrations out outwardly rather than by trying to self improve, but I get it, it's certainly not always easy. I did not turn a profit in 2 of the previous 3 years, but with an improved mindset, an amazing woman in my life, and a strong work ethic, I've gotten my game back to where it needs to be.

This will be my last post in this thread. If you'd like to discuss further with me I'm just a PM away.

Brian
After a majority of posters found above reaction worthless, mr. Hastings posts the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger88 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
I find it ironic that so many of you have such a strong opinion of me yet not a single one of you have shot me a PM yet. We can debate morality all you want, but there's a real sociopathic element of posting nasty things to the world while at the same time being unwilling to have a real conversation about the topic. I get the mob mentality to pile on and hate on one who is more successful than the mobsters, but just realize that in an adult world more problems are solved through real conversation than by blind hatred.

I've tried to give back to the 2+2 community and the poker community for many years, I've never turned someone down when they've asked for advice about poker strategy or whatever. It's unfortunate that many of you don't really understand or care about that. I've been on 2+2 for many years now, and I've learned a lot from this site, but I can't imagine myself continuing to try to give back publicly to a group of people who just don't get it (not talking about all of you, but seemingly the majority). Those who have made a real effort to get to know me are aware of who I am, and that's what matters. So from my perspective, it makes more sense to give back by helping these people than to post strategy advice on a forum. And like I said, I'm very good at replying to PMs.
Then mr. Baker came into the thread and ended the doubts about the allegations by posting a picture of a DM mr. Hastings send him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
This is the level of delusion we're dealing with here folks

The guy was no doubt blowing up my old Skype that I never use and got frustrated when I didn't immediately respond

I don't always get Multiaccounting apologies, but when I do they curse me out, condescend and call me a bad player, talk some patriotic bull**** about what's good for the game, and something something I didn't scum you that bad but I'll still pay your equity back



Fwiw let me explain how I was contacted

With 7 left in the FT a poker player who is my friend but is no doubt much closer to Brian than me messaged a close friend of mine saying that they had a 'business opportunity' or something like that for the FT. I had no clue wtf this was so I played out the FT and only realized after this was my opportunity to learn who I was playing against

Of course, that was the SCOOP FT

When we played sessions like this together

Hand #4379

PokerStars Hand #130955392733: 8-Game (Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit, $100/$200 USD) - 2015/02/22 12:46:20 ET
Table 'Coppelia V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Crazy Elior ($6493.10 in chips)
Seat 2: NoelHayes ($8830.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Fresh_oO_D ($7211 in chips)
Seat 4: hotmark777 ($2576.69 in chips)
Seat 6: WhooooKidd ($2450.50 in chips)

He didn't give two ****s about telling me 4 months prior at 100/200 8game
No reaction from mr. Hasting upon that post, but SGT RJ reveals that he tried to get the post removed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
He also reported bakes posting that PM. Quick, mods, delete that post!

For the record, while random posting of PMs without permission is frowned up, particularly if you are just trying to slur someone, when you actually admit to what you're being accused of in a PM, we aren't going to delete that so you can erase your own confession.
BERRI SWEET enters the thread, and provides hand histories to go with his suspicion that he too played against mr. Hastings under the screenname "NoelHayes".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BERRI SWEET Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
I play as BERRI SWEET on stars. The biggest winner in the world against me this year is NoelHayes. I was always playing him under the assumption that he was someone other than Brian Hastings. Here are two hands, that sprung to mind, that I would have played very differently, had I known it was Brian I was playing.

    Poker Stars, $200/$400 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36905061

    Sauce123 (BTN): $85,689.68 (214.2 bb)
    tr1cky7 (SB): $45,188.25 (113 bb)
    JayP-AA (BB): $73,806.55 (184.5 bb)
    Hero (MP): $96,972.54 (242.4 bb)
    NoelHayes (CO): $60,780.86 (152 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with Q K 7 J
    Hero raises to $1,400, NoelHayes raises to $4,800, 3 folds, Hero calls $3,400

    Flop: ($10,200) 2 A J (2 players)
    Hero checks, NoelHayes bets $4,078, Hero calls $4,078

    Turn: ($18,356) Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, NoelHayes checks

    River: ($18,356) Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, NoelHayes checks

    Results: $18,356 pot ($5 rake)
    Final Board: 2 A J Q Q
    Hero showed Q K 7 J and won $18,351 ($9,473 net)
    NoelHayes mucked 6 Q K 9 and lost (-$8,878 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.






      Poker Stars, $200/$400 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36905051

      Sauce123 (MP): $62,447.14 (156.1 bb)
      JayP-AA (CO): $129,784.28 (324.5 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $120,621.95 (301.6 bb)
      NoelHayes (SB): $44,200.27 (110.5 bb)
      Ben86 (BB): $35,182.02 (88 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5 J 6 6
      2 folds, Hero raises to $800, NoelHayes raises to $2,800, Ben86 folds, Hero calls $2,000

      Flop: ($6,000) 8 2 A (2 players)
      NoelHayes bets $2,398, Hero raises to $8,146.78, NoelHayes raises to $16,400, Hero raises to $24,653.22, NoelHayes raises to $41,400.27, Hero folds

      Results: $55,306.44 pot ($5 rake)
      Final Board: 8 2 A
      Hero mucked 5 J 6 6 and lost (-$27,453.22 net)
      NoelHayes mucked and won $55,301.44 ($27,848.22 net)



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


      Maybe I would have still raised the flop had I known I was playing Brian Hastings. Maybe not. I would definitely not have 4bet the flop if I knew it was him.

      In these two pots alone, I lost roughly 30k more than I would have done if I had known it was Brian. There are a lot more(albeit usually smaller) pots like this, where I made erroneus assumptions because of the presented misinformation, and lost a lot of equity and money as well.

      I wanted to chime in and underline the massive effects that cheating in this manner can have on the other players in the game.

      I do believe that Brian owes me(and others) a lot more than just an apology.

      Last edited by Videopro; 06-26-2015 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Cliffs
      06-21-2015 , 03:24 PM
      Well, Stinger has some explaining to do.

      06-21-2015 , 03:26 PM
      Hastings always seemed shady as **** especially after the isildur rape.
      06-21-2015 , 04:03 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Andro Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      Well, Stinger has some explaining to do.
      What are the odds this thread has more than 30 pages tomorrow?
      06-21-2015 , 04:39 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Andro Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      Well, Stinger has some explaining to do.

      It suck so many people do this and don't have a problem with it.
      06-21-2015 , 04:56 PM
      This thread is going to reach super aids levels. But question for bakes and your friends. Why wouldn't you out that info sooner? You had to wait for him to call out someone else for being unethical?
      06-21-2015 , 04:58 PM
      Who were the well known pros and how did they know?
      06-21-2015 , 05:05 PM
      Alright Hastings, are you Noel Hayes on stars? admitting it now after two bracelets and crushing would only be fair.
      06-21-2015 , 05:18 PM
      most likely is him. just jumps into the highest games (mix and PLO specifically) and stops getting a wait list and full tables after about a week on the scene. also has sick runs in several WCOOP events just before crushing the WSOP

      in chat jungleman said noel is "a very rich guy and doesnt need the money". someone with that description and open seats at the table is a pretty big inclination that its a top professional
      06-21-2015 , 05:22 PM
      BigCityBanker (NoelHayes) is online and reading NVG maybe he can comment.
      06-21-2015 , 05:35 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by COG Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      BigCityBanker (NoelHayes) is online and reading NVG maybe he can comment.
      06-21-2015 , 05:48 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by pocket_zeros Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      The site did punish - it suspended Townsend's status for one month. They couldn't suspend Hastings because he wasn't the one who violated the site's rules but he still directly benefited from Townsend's violation via the strategy Townsend gleaned and shared from those hand histories. This is where that word ethics you bandied about comes into play; taking Hastings at his word he wasn't aware he did anything wrong before or during his match with Viktor. But he did come to learn after the match that he was given an unfair advantage by Townsend's violation of the rules. What is the ethical thing to do when you learn you've won $4 million dollars from someone in a competition where you had an unfair competitive advantage?
      lol the ethical thing to do is not to return any money. how can you honestly think that isildur deserves a rebate? im genuinely asking what your logic is behind it, because "i love how crazy isildur is and want him to have more money to spew away" is the only logic any of you ever post for why he was "cheated". the multiaccounting thing is a whole different issue however as that could be argued deserves to have money forfeited if true.
      06-21-2015 , 09:27 PM
      06-21-2015 , 09:50 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PeteBlow Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      well, that was a waste of time!
      06-21-2015 , 09:52 PM
      Yeah read through that link too and was like "wtf was the point of that"
      06-21-2015 , 09:59 PM
      So is Hastings playing as NoelHayes?
      06-21-2015 , 10:10 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      So is Hastings playing as NoelHayes?

      Who knows. My guess is stinger will come in and say no, bakes and all his buddies won't have any proof and BigCityBanker will keep ignoring the thread.
      06-22-2015 , 01:26 AM
      I know for a fact that Noel is not brian.
      06-22-2015 , 01:47 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by ClassicalGuitar23 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      I know for a fact that Noel is not brian.
      Great, Now if you told us how you know this fact to dispel the rumor?
      06-22-2015 , 05:31 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by ClassicalGuitar23 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      I know for a fact that Noel is not brian.
      I'll bet the other side for a reasonable 1.3:1 odds and escrow.
      06-22-2015 , 11:48 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by ClassicalGuitar23 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      I know for a fact that Noel is not brian.
      Ok.....?
      06-22-2015 , 12:16 PM
      Played a bunch with NoelHayes over scoop and in cash games. I'd be very surprised to find out it was Hastings. He showed some sort of knowledge about Ireland and the local poker scene there when asked by a random at my table. I have heard the account has been sold, and is not owned by the account maker anymore. At first I thought this was NoelHayes himself, who also has the BCB nickname. Also into Horse Racing, similar to the avatar. Its annoying a fairly obvious multiaccount can just pop up from nowhere, but everyone kinda knows anyway. Super surprised to see Brian mentioned in regard to the account.

      https://twitter.com/bigcitybanker
      06-22-2015 , 01:46 PM
      Its been pretty common knowledge round circles in dublin for about a month now it was hastings on the account. People that know noel knew he was too smart to just jump into those high stakes games so it was only a matter of who it was and people close to noel revealed it was hastings pretty quickly. It was surprising how relaxed people were in keeping the whole situation secret. Not sure how much accounts like this sell for but don't imagine noel doing it for the money. He's fairly well off by all accounts. He's had some high profile jobs with gambling firms like boylesports, paddy power and tote in Ireland. He also had a large share of the horse our conor who won the grand national in the UK swell as shares in many other horses. He has always been known as ,how do i put this, a slimy individual though and a huge fanboy of high stakes players so who knows... Its also been said that mark davis acted as sort of a middleman for the transaction. Not sure if thats true though but would be surprised if it wasn't. Makes you wonder how big of a business buying and selling accounts is.
      06-22-2015 , 01:59 PM
      Given the veracity that Brian has shown in defending himself in the past, his silence on the NoelHayes accusation makes it fairly likely that he has used that account at some point.

      I'll give an anecdote that shapes my opinion:

      Back in 2013 I made some vociferous arguments urging people against backing Bet Rasie Fold on kickstarter. My tl;dr premise was that if Jay and Taylor were monetizing the film that they should allow lower stakes players a chance to buy a piece of the project (I heard through the grapevine that durrr had 100k in it), rather than request donations for mousepads and the like. At the time (and to this day) I was also pretty salty towards Jay and Taylor because I felt like they had financially profited and personally built their brand by creating a negative exteranlity product and manipulating a lot of their coaches and customers.

      Brian and I met through a mutual friend in Vancouver and hung out a few times. Despite not having much of a personal relationship with him, he felt the need to call me out publicly and send me a PM privately in defense of Taylor, Jay, and Bet Raise Fold. He said I had "a lot of growing up to do", which is 100 percent correct, that Cardrunners wasn't the first player in the market, also 100 percent correct, and that we really can't begrudge people for taking advantage of a situation, 100 percent wrong.

      Without any provocation, he also decided to share some personal financial information explaining that he is actually DOWN on CR lifetime. He said that it really bothers him that people have a misconception that he made all his money on CR (no Brian, it's actually from cheating Isildur ).

      Basically, Brian says he bought a decent chunk of them in 2010, and presumably that investment lost ~50 percent of its value a year later, making the rest of his CR winnings basically a wash.

      Now I'm going to directly copy/paste this part even though its a faux pas because the phrasing of it is important. His PM starts with:

      "I started making videos for CR in 2005 as a means of having spending money while I was 17 and paranoid of trying to cash out underage. Got paid $1k/month and felt like king of my high school"

      Now he doesn't actually say he was playing underage, but I highly doubt he could either a. get as good as he did without playing real money games b. make good videos without making them live action.

      I found it a little ridiculous that Brian would share some personal financial information with me. I found it more ridiculous that he would admit to me that he played underage. Even crazier, he gave me a juicy anecdote about Taylor manipulating a scared 17 year old when I have an ax to grind with CR and would like nothing more than to see training sites burn to the ground.

      Basically, since Brian has bent over backwards to defend himself in the past, why would he keep quiet now? A balanced cheating range would be to either a. always ignore accusations b. always deny them, and not just deny the ones that can't be proven and ignore the ones that are likely common knowledge.

      Brian has been massively insufferable on social media this summer, and seems to be on the highest of high horses when it comes to his success and opinions. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a high school or college acquaintance of his and get literally daily brags from him about how rich he is.

      But what if people made big bets against him this summer without knowing that he had been training in online mixed games against the best in the world?

      And obviously David Baker feels slightly cheated by the Noelhayes account.

      And although we know Brian makes constant denials of the Isildur cheating scandal, it's definitely a he-said she-said type of situation, and at the very least his colleague Brian Townsend did get caught (twice), and it's hard to believe that the two of them didn't talk strategy together.

      So let's not pretend that this isn't a dirty business we are in. There are no "nicest guys in poker". There's your bottom line and that's it. Good luck at the tables.
      06-22-2015 , 02:18 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by vinivici9586 Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes" Cliffs in first post.
      And although we know Brian makes constant denials of the Isildur cheating scandal, it's definitely a he-said she-said type of situation, and at the very least his colleague Brian Townsend did get caught (twice), and it's hard to believe that the two of them didn't talk strategy together.
      FYI, Brian admits that he talked strategy with Townsend about Isildur, and Brian admits that Townsend bought hand histories but claims he never viewed those histories himself. For me the distinction is pointless because even though Brian may not have bought/viewed the hand histories he still directly benefited because the strategy discussions he had with Townsend came about directly from those histories (by Brian's own admission). Based on this I don't understand how Brian can claim nothing improper was done.

      Here's the interview where Brian stated all this (link jumps to 9:50):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L4SposkR9Y#t=9m50s

            
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