Jungle's words on all this have really been absolutely terrible. Each comment just sounds so slippery and evasive with no straightforward taking responsibility.

Maybe I don’t have all the details, so feel free to correct me if I’m missing something. But if it’s just ghosting Jungle man is accused of I am going to have to be in the camp of those defending him that’s it’s not cheating or even immoral behavior. Poker is a game about deception, protecting yourself, game selection and so many other factors especially on the highest levels.

That being said, it’s also about risk vs reward and protecting your reputation. So any positive EV that he gained I’m sure he lost by future action he may have got from whales that will be skeptical to play with him.

Jungle won the battle but not the war.

Was fearing the ban hammer for using a meme, but now I see you are a fellow man of culture. It's my favorite comment on the internet - vitriolic rage at a jackdaw being classed as a crow. It's a hard one to beat!

it's the most common American connotation of the word used in US movies and the media in the last decade or so. most non-native speakers who watch stuff in English probably think that the word is used exactly as in the urban dict definition.

a teacher working as a tutor on the side can be called a "side hustle":



Stlls didn't just guess a random word.

/derail

Poker is about deception relative to the play of your hands, not about your identity. There is a reason you’re not allowed to have more than one account even though they could ensure they don’t play in the same game or tournament. And there’s a reason they don’t let you constantly change your screen name.

If it’s not cheating or immoral, why doesn’t everyone just openly admit they do it with no remorse?

Is not paying your debts also okay because you were just being deceitful about your ability to pay? It’s your fault for believing they were going to pay you back. Have to make better reads as a poker player.

Maybe he's not looking to convince anyone though? The HS community have come down on his side what more is he looking for there? The guy has obviously turned down a ton of deals over the years.

Is pretending to be drunk, oblivious (wearing headphones and people not thinking I can hear them) and a fish playing live poker while I am really not any of the above immoral or cheating? That’s basically what it is.

The last part about not paying your debts is not even close to an accurate comparison. That would be equivalent to me going all in at live poker and then running off with my chips when called and I know I lost.

It really does not matter whether it’s poker or not. there’s a group of ppl organizing a private game, to which only select ppl are invited. It is not a question of ethics at all. The cheating lies in the fact that somebody sneaks into the game who is by no means supposed to be in there. There just is no angle where this is correct. And again it absolutely does not matter what the game is.

On a side note: The guy letting somebody else play on his behalf is obviously the main cheater in this situation.

Not sure how you can say it doesn’t involve ethics but is for sure cheating.
You could have a good argument but you are going to need to flesh it out more.

If Jungleman wants to make amends, he can start by confessing about all the times he's done this before. (Does anyone believe this is his first time?) He should start snitching on everyone he has ever worked with, everyone who has approached him to do something similar even if he didn't partner with them, and every pro who he knows has done something similar.

I would personally avoid playing high stakes, mainly because I don't have the money

Girah is the first time he got caught

In your example you are creating the image of the drunk fish and are not using one already created by someone else. Initially it may even cost you some $ while you spew a bit and develop your fish image.

Whether it's all a big deal or not I'm not debating, but I don't think your example is comparable.

Just more bizarre stuff. Downplaying and deflecting.

Its clear he still doesn't think he did anything wrong.

Mad because he got caught not because of what he did.

Mad because he is taking heat when others who did the same are not.

Which is classic whataboutery.

Well......name them if you want us to believe you.

He talks about "doing good" when he clearly doesn't understand what "good" is.

That is not even close to being what it is. If I play against someone that does that, I will recognize that person as the person who puts on an act about how well they will play. They're not representing themselves as someone else that I have a totally different opinion about.

It wasn't meant to be a comparison. It was meant to ask you what else you think is considered acceptable because it's being deceitful and you think being deceitful is okay since poker involves deceit. And it's nothing like running off with your chips after you called.

So, then by this logic DB and BP should have recognized Jungleman by how well he was playing and it shouldn’t be an issue right?

Not paying your debts is exactly this which is why I think it’s an absurd observation. The money I owe to the pot is a debt I owe until I pay it.

Wow, is that a serious question? What logic led you to that conclusion? I said I would recognize a person that I saw in person the next time I saw them again. And you conclude from that statement that I think someone should know it’s Junglman behind someone else’s account based on how he plays?

It has nothing to do with being deceitful. I guess you’re not really following the thread of the conversation, so I won’t continue it.

That’s fine because if you can’t even remember what you wrote let alone what I wrote I feel the same way.

You compared ghosting to not paying a debt. Pretty sure this is a much bigger mental leap to make than the leap from not paying a debt to not paying a poker pot.

I'm willing to let it go, but not if you are going to follow up by misrepresenting my posts. I didn't have any problems remembering what I wrote. Just stop while you're behind.

I'm sorry that you're having problems with reading comprehension after I just explained that I didn't compare them, I was asking you about another example where you might think deceit is okay away from the table because it's part of the game at the table. I'm sorry that you have problems with critical thinking. I really am trying not to expose your failings to the forum members. Do yourself a favor and stop.

Read what you wrote again. It’s not exactly the same. Nuance is important for the point I was making so I can see how you missed it.

You didn’t say anything in your first post about playing with the person again. You said you will notice how well the person plays. I agree with you, I think how the person is playing at any given time is more important than your previous conceptions of someone (not that that information is irrelevant just less important). Not only for this very reason but for a myriad of reasons. People can be playing their F-A game, etc.

I'm too lazy to go back through the thread to see how often this point has been made or reinforced, but depending on who reached out to whom, I gotta agree with this. Not saying that puts the ghoster in the clear, but the ghostee should not be let off the hook, especially if he initiated the activity.

Perhaps a loose analogy would be the college admission scandal that broke open a year ago. The owner of the poker account is the equivalent to the parents – Lori Laughlin, Douglas Hodge, et al – who hired the services. Jungleman is roughly akin to Mark Riddell, the guy who took the College Board tests in the name of the kids.

Now, one can argue into the night as to who is more in the wrong, but it should not be ignored that both parties acted fraudulently.