Seems a bit far fetched IMO. And if they play following the AI's instructions it won't apply.

It's a complicated problem but I think you could do a combination of independently annoying verifications that would make using the AI very difficult for the person. The key to solving this problem is making it situationally difficult for the AI to get the information it needs to be able to feedback the decisions.

I think you could do this in a way that would be hardly noticed by the players and at the same time would cause the botter to have to manually transfer the information to the AI in order for him to be able to get a decision from it. It's basically a form of annoyance arbitrage.

1. Little to no effect on the regular player

2. Unpredictable for the botter especially in what types of information he would have to send to the AI manually in order for it to make the decision

The reason I know how the AI gets its information is because I was reading a lot about how the playing computer is able to transfer information to the botting computer automatically.

I think it's possible to randomize the tools themselves so that a new wave of slightly different methods was being throw at the botter. I would need to talk with their programmers to assess how difficult certain tactics might be but I already have in my mind like 9 different super annoying things that meet the criteria.

random post here, didn't research but meh..

what do they do to stop people who play chess online, from plugging the opponents move into a chess super computer etc.. and playing the move the computer suggests?

I usually don't have the time available for tourneys. Micros don't interest me. I can live w/o online, I play plenty of B&M, but I did like to donk around a bit. I chose to play w/o any software aids but at least I knew others used them and that was ok w/ me. But I'm not going to be a total sucker and play against advanced machines that are taking an unbelievable amount off of the tables if what's been posted itt this thread is true, the amount is astonishing. I knew about bots, of course, but had no idea they'd gotten this advanced and I don't see a reason for me to put up w/ them.

It's different for you guys that can still win significant sums but surely you've all got to be very worried about what's coming. If this is your livelihood then you've got a real problem.

I would have assumed that there was nothing they could do, but someone posted in one of the other threads that some sites (maybe just where you can play for money?) have very sophisticated methods of identifying when you play a move that your up-till-then-true-self would have been highly unlikely to have spotted.

I want to add that having briefly perused some of the botter forums, I'm slightly less scared that this will bring about the death of online poker. It seems that the minority who possess highly sophisticated bots have no inclination of sharing their secrets with lazy ingrates who haven't done the work and are as aware as we are of the vulnerability of the ecosystem. There was a potentially key moment when the codingthe..... guy considered going open source but it looks like that didn't happen.

Its good to see the thread is getting some heat but still allot of you are discussing irellevant things....

regs playing with cameras???
custom mouses ????

i mean wtf is all that for.....what normal person would agree to do that....i certanly wouldnt...

i really hope this thread goes in the way that people who wants the bots out of the sites organise and make demands to their networks and sites not coming out with such ridicolous ideas.....

i repeat 1 more time every normal poker player can spot a bot after couple thousands of hands....the problem isnt in identifying bots....the problem is that sites look away cause they make a lot of money from the bots and perhaps even have their own bots.....

from 13 pages i havent seen a single action proposal just some wierd ideas on how to identify bots and stuff.....

and you failed to add anything as well

I have not really been following this but have noticed a lot more bots lately. Is the main threat to any particular game, HU, 6max or FR and are the major winner bots from HU or 6max?

Not sure the problem is soluble but I should think that any sane poker site would view them as am existential threat and rightly so.

If these bots, be it the dumb bots or the smart bots, avoid Stars, then Stars must already have a workable solution to detecting them.

If Stars have figured it out then surely others can figure it out as well. The real question is, do they want to?

For all we know it could be these sites themselves that are running bots. Rake just not enough for them.

Online poker is no longer a safe or fair place to play. That is the message that will get to the masses from this story and the other cheating scandals. A lot of players will quit from this. Less people will start playing because of this. Think about it, before you started playing if you were aware of all these cheating scandals, would you have made your first deposit?

Nope. If I thought as a beginner a few years ago that people were trading action, working as teams, etc. or I was playing against AI bots then I would have simply not taken the risk. Poker is a bloody mess everywhere right now, perhaps reluctantly the idea of a heavily regulated and locked down national pools (i say this because it seems intuitively easier to manage a local player base than something more distributed, in terms of legal documentation to support joining sites, and legal penalties for fraud, GPS, etc.) is the way forward.

Fair enough, I just guess I don't see why it would affect you when you're donking around especially. The main bots we are worried about are winning at a combined winrate of just under 2ptbb at 5/10, so while it's very worrying (and yes, I am worried and learning PLO now!) it won't make you a sucker for playing because you can obviously still win $ and the bots at smaller stakes probably suck.

To each his own, I guess.

actually you failed yourself in reading this thread so when you do read it from the beggining you will see where....

The original idea was to email sites about the bot issue. How about we add to that email with the proven fact that Ipoker sites are advertising or being advertised on sites that promote bots.

Surely sites such as titan and william hill know they are affiliated and being advertised on known bot sites? It has been happening for years.

They can deny there are any bots on the ipoker network but they can not deny they are being advertised on sites promoting bot software.

I agree with you. But I still think it's the best way to stop botters..unless they can find a non-jail time penalty that seems just as harsh.. for example if you get caught botting you and your family are now unable to play anywhere in the US and your account is confiscated.

I did write that it's possible the lawmakers just decide to ban poker completely if they cannot police it well. This is a very real possibility. I think it's closer to 50/50 than most people think.
From what the commission members said yesterday they are somewhat aware of how big of an issue bots are, and in the end if they cannot find a solution to them they probably won't legalize online poker at all.

I'm not an expert on the subject but I would assume they are mostly playing 6-max and FR because they can play so many more hands there. I highly doubt the bots play regs at HU but they must certainly hunt for fish.

I think this is the right approach in stopping automatic bot play... it would stop a lot of the mass tabling/mass poker site grinding bots, and that can't be a bad thing.

I personally don't mind inputting some sort of captcha or type a spoken word once every hour.

Yes and I dont think Stars is into sharing that method, it's pretty damn smart out of the box thinking what they do. Haven't seen it suggested by anyone in this thread yet.

Thanks for bringing this up Stakemonster. This is indeed very alarming and shocking news. I, like many others, had no idea that it came this far this fast. I've immediately sent emails to the sites you listed and some more

Stars detects bots because their software is intrusive and scans your processes for them. This includes scanning for things like Teamviewer.

Don't applaud Stars' results until you know their methods.

Gee whiz, you know bots lose sometimes too. What is the big deal? I feel kind of bad for bot owners whose bots go on a cold streak and get unlucky.

not very often that I literally lol at a post on 2+2. ty sir.

Poker Rooms should work together more closely, exchange ID's of known botters, bank accounts etc, ban them across all networks.
I guess we can't really stop the bots but we can stop them withdrawing their money or at least make it more dangerous. But maybe they already use fake ID's? Then how do they get their money off

Thank you Poker Stars for scanning processes on my computer to keep me safe from cheaters.

normal people who realize how bad the affects of the botting problem are.

i think its a great benefit if winning regs will refuse to play for privacy issues. games get easier yo. i highly doubt they will if given no alternative, but keep acting like you will give up online poker completely if a webcam is mandated.



this is only for winning regs. see post #163. so if this happens as a result, i'm all for it.