But hard physical evidence is required if one claims the US government has crashed alien spaceships, if one wants one's claims to be taken seriously. Otherwise it's just the same old same claims that permeate ufology. nobody's claiming life elsewhere in the universe is impossible. Crashed alien spacecraft claims otoh requires actual proof to be believed.

Or it could also be that no evidence exists, hence the Pentagon denying it. That's also a very good reason.

Thing is, ten years ago i would've agreed with you 100%.

But since smoking DMT and (at least experientially) meeting aliens (or what presented as such) combined with, subsequently and, to be honest, much more significantly, having sober and very apparently *real* experiences with CE5 producing craft type objects in the sky and remote viewing over recent years to name a few - I can only report what is physically possible.

I can say this for certain: it is physically possible to have 100% apparently real hallucinations of UFO like craft/experiences. That is something the human mind can do to an otherwise peffectly sane and rational individual. I'm not super smart, I'm definitely not super special, I've just led the kind of loser life that stumbles into these worlds with a slightly more open mind. And I've now experienced them for myself. That side of ufology is true from the experiencer's POV.

Thus the theory seems to be that 'the phenomenon' - whatever it may turn out to be - is able to operate in this strange realm of uncertainty in plain sight preciesly because of all the stigma and secular orthodoxy that DEAMANDS IMMEDIATE GRATIFYING PROOF. That this needle point obsession with Cartesian physicality is actually kind of a weakness as far as the universe and our ultimate reality is concerned. (notwithstanding all the obvious survival benefits utilising science in general has bestowed)

True, but then I bring you back to the earlier point. Why are they deliberately stoking this fire? What is the benefit to the US DoD to keep this lore going in perpetuity? They could crush these whistleblowers in a heartbeat. They do it every day to civilians who breach national defence contracts.

Apparently they're going to release the entire interview at some point. The story is hitting some MSM (at least in the UK) at last:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ech-spacecraft

You need to be way way more skeptical of drug induced experiences. They count for literally nothing in this context.

What are the opinions from scientists about alien visitors? As far as I’m aware, many or most astrophysicists either leave open the possibility for alien life or think it’s likely but the distances in the universe are so great that it’s incredibly unlikely that we can be visited.

You can remote view?

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

you mean the context I added with the remainder of that sentence?

You're preaching to the converted there i promise. Drug induced experience is evidence of drug induced experiences, but they do *prove* experiential possibilities for the subjective experiencer; that part is undeniable at this point.

Google/youtube Gary Nolan. He's the most high profile scientist working behind the scenes to have come forward so far.

In a nutshell, the 'aliens planet hopping' hypothesis isn't very well supported by serious ufologists. It seems much more likely the phenomena is either planetary based or outside of that paradigm altogether (i.e. interdimensional, time travel, undiscoverd physics etc). The idea that the 'greys' are almond eyed, floppy fingered hyper tech beings from Zeta Rediculi may just be because that's the least frightening form they could take to interact with us, like we send cuddly larping furry costumed zookeepers in to deal with moma panda and the pups.

I don't think I'd go that far, but from the dozen or so times I've tried to I'd say the results were more on-the-nose than pure chance yeah. I've seen people do it with considerable accuracy. Try it yourself. Go to a random image generator website and try and remote view the next image. You might be surprised. Very often I've found while I didn't nail the image exactly if I recall everything that went through my mind it was pretty close. Unreasonably close.

100% certain. That should mean undeniable evidence right?

Yep. I have undeniable personal evidence that it is experientially possible to hallucinate ufology-like phenomena. As originally (and carefully) stated if you'd care to read it again.

No, I mean in the context of objective evidence of aliens. I have no idea what the relevance of subjective experience could be here.

So you agree that based on our place in the universe that traveling here in way we understand possible with known physics is very unlikely? I haven’t looked into this Gary Nolan guy but the few times I’ve seen this come up with respected physicists and astronomers I don’t recall them ever humoring something like inter dimensional travel or wormholes as something to be given serious consideration.

i don't know how to answer either of those points without repeating myself, soz. I don't have the answers, only opinion and perspective. It is certainly my *opinion* that modern armchair science discounts all subjective and phenomenal experience at its peril. And I believe this 100%.

You post too fast. I was talking about the guy you mentioned. He's a Stanford professor or something that says he's 100% certain aliens are living among us!

No they couldn't, due to the whistleblower law, it's why Grusch's complaint has gone to a higher office and the Government are investigating his complaint. This is a recent enough law, signed off by Biden.

And sorry but we're going off on another tangent. My original response was contending your comment that Grusch's claims were pretty big news. I don't think it's major significant by virtue of the fact that it's nothing that hasn't been claimed before, and always without any proof. The only difference here is that Grusch has put in an official complaint as a whistleblower. Yet again as claimed he hasn't even seen photos, just talked to some people. He's apparently claimed to have submitted "evidence" to congress yet can't reveal it. Now, the fact that it's congress, is interesting. But again, unless this alleged evidence (which could turn out to be nothing more than hearsay accounts) proves to be viable is another thing altogether. If it does, then it'll be huge news. If it doesn't, then yet again it's no different than previous claims.

Nolan claims to have material of an exotic origin, retrieved from Brazil in 1957. I read about the actual case as a teen before and remember reading it had a higher concentration of magnesium than normal.
He's analysing it and claims the material doesn't make sense on an isotopic level. He also claims it's manufactured and would have cost an absolute $hit ton of money to make, so if it was a hoax it was an amazingly elaborate one. Apparently the material was dripping slag like or molten, from the UFO, according to eyewitnesses.
I have no idea how viable the claims are as I haven't looked very closely into the matter.

Edit. Interview with Nolan on the matter on some podcast




And a sceptical piece here

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2010...fo-sample.html

Sagan Drake equation. That was even before they had modern telescopes to see all the planets we now know about. Sagan said he estimated Earth had been visited a dozen or so times by an advanced life.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhp3hc

Ah, fair enough. Yes that statement caused even a few believers some eyebrow gymnastics. Here's the quote if anyone hasn't seen it, it's at the beginning of this clip:

https://youtu.be/e2DqdOw6Uy4?t=100


Trouble is Nolan is such a highly credible person outside of ufology he's very difficult to discount. He's won multiple science awards, popular in his field, has a massively sucessful cancer treatment patent business. Nobody can claim he's here for the grift $$$ or even the 'fame' (which is always dubious anyway).

He also disproved Greer's Atacama skeleton a few years back, after tests revealed it to be of human origin. So he's earnt his stripes. He claims the CIA first contacted him 10 or so yrs ago to review brainscans of military personel who've been in close contact with UAPs. One can only assume with the 100% comment that he has indeed seen more direct evidence than he's letting on there. We know they all share the shiny top secret stuff behind the scenes because many of them have pre-empted leaks on twitter/podcasts and the like. People like Elizondo, Mellon, this new guy Grusch - they would've all seen or had access to some of the more classified material (eg. radar, military witness, 4k camera footage), so there's a non-trivial chance some quite damning physical evidence does in fact exist and is being shared around close circles.

Whistleblower law explains Grusch. It doesn't explain Zondo, Mellon, Semivan and Ramirez. Who were all permitted to disclose what they knew that wasn't classified before this very recent law (and even further if you listen closely to some of their nudge nudge interviews).

You're telling me all of these guys are operating without the express permission of their employers who they have all sworn allegience to for life (and publicly continue to)? I don't believe you. US intel destroy anyone who publicly steps out of line or paints them in a bad light or alledges conspiracies that aren't convenient. Whatever is happening here is happening expressly because a) somebody in the CIA/NSA is allowing it to happen and/or b) they can't stop disclosure anyway so they'd rather control it on their own terms. Elizondo is still employed by NASA.

The Drake equation has nothing to do with alien visitors. I believe it’s possible or even likely that intelligent life exists or has existed elsewhere.

I’d like to see the evidence for Sagan claiming what you say because that video doesn’t show it and everything I’ve heard from him on the topic is in line with what I’ve said more or less. He is extremely skeptical of ufo and abduction accounts and claims there has never been evidence of anything. He also repeatedly talks about how subjective experiences can’t be trusted. I also think his speculation in the older video about why people believe in ufos makes a lot of sense.





https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/carlsagan.html

High profile names voicing support for David Grusch on social media:

https://twitter.com/paulsanderson/status/1666158302483595264

*warning: this link does not contain direct physical evidence of alien craft

Doesn't get much more high profile than US presidents. Jimmy Carter saw a UFO and filed a report. Bush and Trump both alluded to their knowledge on UFO programs. I wouldnt be surprised if even more did like J.F.K. pretty sure opening up project blue book was one of the things he was after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/800255...bbyist-claims/

Bush said "americans can't handle the truth"

This newest guy "Grusch" is pretty trivial in the huge stack
of circumstantial evidence over 80+ years.

Funniest thing to me about Blue Book was the mountain of cases they resesrched and how they still couldn't debunk like 5% of them. Lol thats a good number of cases. As a rational person just the sheer number of covert projects like Blue Book, Grudge etc over many decades post 1940s begs the question "why" did they need those organizations after the 40s UFO wave. You've got the credible Battle of Los Angeles in 42' Roswell 47'. Only reasonable conclusion is they actually got a craft in 47' as the military guys kept sticking to like Jesse Marcel and his officer.

Burden of proof should be the other way. Debunkers need to explain why the government keeps funding these silly UFO projects if there is nothing behind them and zero "physical evidence"

The possibility of ET life certainly is non-zero. But save the song-and-dance and present something that can be analyzed by well-regarded team of scientists to reveal exactly what this stuff is.

This. Claims from credible sources support the need for investigation but they don't constitute proof on their own.