No. I suspect that in Canada, it could go either way, depending on where it happened, the officers who responded, etc. And I'd be surprised if it wasn't the same in some other countries.

What you see there is a very well-planned, concerted effort not to use lethal weapons. And...a willingness to let him go (in the short term), I think. It appears to me that early on in the video, where he has the ability to move to the other side of the vehicles, there's not a lot to stop him from just running down the street. Strategies like that require a mind shift not just for the police, but for the public.

That is probably one of the best points of the entire thread. if one thing is true it is that in critical situations we rely on what know and what we trust (hopefully we know something).

So if there is an over-reliance on guns to resolve situations, personnel might be less likely to use alternate routes (physical confrontation, safety "bubbles", de-escalation) in situations where there is actual room for doubt, simply because they would feel less secure.

Of course, half the entire American cultural mythos could aptly be summed us as "person resolves situation by killing someone with a gun". Great entertainment by all means, but probably an indicator that there is a way to go.

If it's flip in Canada then it's one in Afghanistan too probably. Although I really think the chances are higher of survival even in countries that are considered 3rd world. In some countries the people are just policing themselves. And don't even let stuff like this happen.

I think it's important to look why the cop should be punished and terminated.

Did anyone listen to what he said? Its honesty mindboggeling as to how stupid this whole conversation between the cop and the crazy was. He didn't even ask one time what his problem was. Not once why he was doing that. Or how to help him. Any negotiator who's not mentally handicapped would know this. Buy some time see how you can handle this. But most importantly understand the suspect.

Convo went as this: "I'm gonna shoot you Steven. You're gonna get shot" over and over. Nothing else until he shot. And the suspect said" ok but you're gonna get beat." If this the content of a conversation of playing 12 year olds, I'd understand. But this was talked between and cop and a obv. intoxicated or insane person.

I think it comes down to if the country is valuing life or not. Are they advanced in politics or not? Is it a good government?

I think when i paint the options the police present as:

- comply or die
- comply and still some times still die

... as perhaps flippant talking points. But I mean them earnestly.

I think many cops are trained they must get compliance first at all costs. This is regardless of situation.

Thus a person with a prybar refusing instructions can be treated little different than a person pulled over for a random traffic stop who is refusing to hand over their license until they are told what they did wrong.

Time and again both face the end of a gun, finger on trigger.

Built into the equation is not de-escalation or walking away no matter how trivial the original reason for the stop is.

In 2019 the police shot and killed 172 knife wielding suspects. In the same year 1,037 suspects were arrested and charged with assaulting a police officer with a knife. Why not another 1,037 police assaulting, knife wielding people shot and killed by police?

My guess is scenarios like that UK cop video happen several times a day in the US with US cops 'mostly not' killing people armed/brandishing knives and other dangerous weapons including firearms.

Oh FFS, seriously? So, US, Canada, and Afghanistan are the only places in the world where there is a 50% chance a similar incident would end in the machete-wielder's death? You need to a bit of a reality check here.

I'll leave aside the dozens of countries where more people are killed by the police per capita, as I'm more interested in knocking you off this silly "this would never happen in Europe" pedestal you seem to be on. You need to really stop and think about this for a minute. You've got a man with a machete, swinging it at officers. There are about 6-8 police there, in the camera view, to start. In the end, there are 30-40 officers on the scene, at least.

This is in London, one of the biggest cities in the world. What do you think happens if a machete-wielder like this shows up in the streets of a German city of 10,000 (or any other European country), where they might have 20 police total on shift at one time? Do you think there might be a decent chance that their only choice ends up being to shoot him? People that were armed with nothing but knives die in Germany every year, shot by police. Not a lot, but it happens.

Not every city has the resources you see in that video. And even with all the officers used in that takedown, it could have easily gone differently. Have a look at the 28 second mark of the video, and what do you see? I see a clear half block with absolutely nothing to stop him from running like a mad man with his machete, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have kept going.

That's not to say I don't think it's an excellent video. They did a fantastic job, and obviously are very well-trained to handle an extremely dangerous situation. It would be great if policing looked like that everywhere, but it doesn't, and the reason isn't as simple as "bad cops". Not even close.

As for the crowbar situation, while I still think that if the video told the story well, it was terrible. But this is still a good point:

Maybe not as several a day as impressive as that one, but that's why we have a video of it - it was an exceptional example. Just the same, there are a lot of situations that are handled well, and we never see them.

And of course that doesn't excuse the ones that are handled terribly.

Scenarios like that one in Canada never happen in the US. Or at least not very often. US police are trained to simply gun down anyone who is posing a threat with a knife.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually assaults a cop with a knife isn't shot. I'm much more inclined to think a thousand people were holding a knife and dropped it before they were gunned down and then were charged with assault.

...and some shot who survived. And, of course some tazed who were then taken in.

And based on how very often police fabricate 'assaulting an officer' and 'resisting arrest' to charges (almost an automatic add in for many) where that just is not present, i think it would be fair to assume the overwhelming number are just fabrications.

yep. assaulting a police officer is almost always a lie. nobody is dumb enough to assualt a police officer.

oh ya remember that video of 80lb grandma? in the post arrest station video the one guy wanted to charge her with it.

Cop fires round at inmate through the cell door. Are u kidding me? He was in his cell and had a nervous breakdown. An army veteran. He's alive now but it could have been deadly.




Here is a good list of how many people get killed by police force.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ers_by_country


This cop derseves a medal.

John21, with one exception the arresting officers who arrested me were very professional and never laid a hand on me. Two of my arrests felt very casual. Of course I live in one of the nicest counties in the country so that’s probably the reason. Like on one of my arrests, he announced that I was under arrest. Then he explained that he wanted me to put my hands behind my back and stand in front of the patrol car. He put handcuffs on me. Told me to step into the back of the vehicle. I complied and didn’t say anything. He took me to the police station and then we just hung out at the police station for four hours. He gave me a ticket for my court date, and then just let me go. Most police arrests do not involve violence. Of course, most is not good enough.

This is untrue. Cops shot a guy dead over my way who was engaging in self harm, but he'd kidnapped a woman who he already murdered. Cops thought she was still alive and the suspect was going to slit her throat.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30977034.html
I also linked earlier the George Nkencho fatal shooting, and he was armed with a knife, which is smaller than a machete in the UK incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_George_Nkencho

Yet another guy was taken alive by unarmed police and he was armed with a submachine gun and a grenade and this was apparently due to simple happenstance
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...devoy-rampage/
Not all confrontations play out in a uniform manner, which can lead to different results, some regrettably fatal.

But fatal shootings aren't unique to North American police, even if they occur more regularly there for contextual reasons.

Corrections officers have much more leeway and commit much much more violence than police officers. Most of the excess violence by cops in America is the insane amount of violence in our jails and prisons boiling up to the surface. Most of the lava is in the core ( jails and prison) but some of it boils up into the actual world especially in the form of volcanos( police and gang related violence)

That's a whole other issue.

Police shouldn't have the authority to charge anyone with more than a disorderly person's offense, any criminal charge should come from the DA.

The fact that they can just charge anyone with criminal offenses knowing they'll be dropped later should be unconstitutional since ARREST records are viewed by potential employers.

But you know...just comply and you'll be fine.

Firing a live round at a metal door isn't against policy ?

I guess there's a reason the guards are locked up with the inmates.
Society gets a two-fer.

I don't think they're trained to do that. I think the main problem is they're not sufficiently trained to not do that. And the little training they do get seems to consist more in telling them what they're legally allowed to do rather than situational training engraining what society expects them to do.

Of course they are. Not just holding a knife, but actually posing a threat.

That's sop as far as I know. It's why the 16 year old girl was shot and why nothing is going to come of it for the cop. He did what he was trained to do.

I think some countries may not train like that but we do here. Always have to my knowledge. For better or worse.

Provide the actual training source. (manuals will do; official training videos as well).

You may have anecdotal evidence but you sound like you know this as FACT.

I disagree strongly with your statements above and await your citations that show shooting is the actual training if someone poses a threat.

So, there's a photo of him in a BLM shirt, which he authenticated, with the phrase "get your knee off our necks" dated 28th of August, 2020.



He indicates he attended the March on Washington on that date. Interestingly, Floyd's family spoke at that event.

He indicated he didn't hear too much about the case other than some trial dates when asked during jury selection.



It looks like someone lied to get on the jury and it wasn't a racist.

I doubt he was trained to do that. Most likely he wasn't really trained at all but rather told in a class that lethal force is justified if the suspect poses an imminent threat. From there cops fill in the blanks and basically wing it. I think that (lack of training resulting in cops ad-libbing in a highly stressful situation) is the best explanation for why despite similar cops with similar training and similar suspects in similar circumstances we see completely dissimilar outcomes.

Yeah. Lol at “against policy”. But it’s not a two fee one because most prisoners shouldn’t be there.

Here’s a math question.

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Population: 65 million
Prisoners: 83,000
Japan
Population : 125 million
Prisoners: 78,000

Sweden

Population 10 million
Prisoners: 4500

If US cjs was ran like Japan or UK how many prisoners would there be?
If US cjs was ran like Sweden how many prisoners would there be?

For reference
United States of America

Population 330 million
Prisoners 2,300,000

The use of force continuum used in the Floyd case isn't enough ?

Deadly force is met with deadly force. It is a fact.

It's possible to deploy less than lethal force against a knife if you have at least three officers and one has a less than lethal device drawn but the fact that a gun should be used against a knife is pretty obvious.

I don't know if they're still taught the 21 foot rule where you're considered a deadly threat when you're closer than 21 feet or not. That was standard for many years and may still be. So....if you have a knife and you're within 21 feet you are a candidate for taking a clip home with you.

That's assuming you're seen as a threat. Obviously there are cases where a person is suicidal or drunk or maybe is using the knife to threaten a third party who's not in immediate danger and the cops may not shoot immediately. But you're always drawing live to spring leaks when you're wielding a knife with cops around.

Why is this in doubt ?

Yes.

Point taken.

My apologies to the fodder of the PIC.

USA 0.69% of population jailed
Japan 0.127% jailed

Out of 1000 people the USA has 69 people sitting behind bars. And Japan has 13 people out of 1000 people jailed.

Sweden is even better with only 0.045% of population jailed.