Ya stories like this are not uncommon and have made me reconsider trying to intervene as a good samaritan, something I always like to believe I would have done prior. I always remember that Mall Security guard story where he captured a shooter and held him for the police who upon arrival instantly shot and killed the security guard assuming he was the shooter.

I always felt a level of revulsion seeing someone being horrible abused while citizens stood and watch (often filming for youtube clicks) but not intervening. I want to believe I would act differently if I felt the risk was worth the reward of saving a life. As a big guy and a capable fighter I always think 'if not me... then who else, should help'??

But realizing that the threat analysis to me includes likely even more risk of being killed by arriving police if I am successful in subduing an offender but in a position of not being able to disengage from him quick enough (because we are holding on to one another in a stalemate position) which leads the cops to say 'I could not see hands and perceived a threat and thus killed him', I sadly now think that in most instances I would not intervene.

Maybe in the worst instances where I thought the victim was going to die if not helped I would, but short of that, it would be a tough call.

And for me the most egregious part is that it would almost certainly be called a just shoot by the cop due to the confusion of the situation. Not because the situation was posing any identified immediate threat, but just that they were afraid one MIGHT be present that they could not see.

As a POC you just do not want to be in that spot where you are unable to immediate respond to police demands when they are arriving to a scene already heightened.

I absolutely believe that in the reverse scenario where it is a white good samitarian who has submitted a POC criminal where police arrive, the trigger finger cop shooting threat ('I was afraid of what I could not see') is far, far less.

I don't even know what you mean by discounted. Are you suggesting that there should be some sort of instruction to jurors that they should assume that an accused criminal or a police officer is lying absent corroboration?

And I'm sure you don't want victim testimony to require corroboration in order to be credited. That would make rape prosecutions, in particular, close to impossible in a lot of cases.

If you are suggesting that jurors should be skeptical when police officers accused of misconduct give self-serving testimony, then sure, I agree, but that isn't very controversial.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/katv.co...ares-his-story

Witness #1 : non criminal, person with credibility. Sworn witness testimony taken at full value and of and by itself is often enough to get a verdict.

Witness(es) #2: Criminal(s) also indicted in the action pointing a finger at others in sworn testimony. Witness testimony greatly discounted as enough proof to convict and thus substantiation via other means is the defacto requirement.

Police officer(s): See Witness 2 as to how their testimony should be treated.


I am saying we have such a wealth of video and false filed reports examples at this point that it is ludicrous to use it a sole determinant, as it often is to convict just as we almost never use the criminals in the same way.

The requirement should absolutely be some outside corroboration and I don't even see that arguable.



Correct.

We have for too long turned a blind eye to the fact that Police have enormous self interest to lie. They are not neutral participants in any confrontation.

If you and i get in a fist fight, neither my accusation that you did X and thus why it your fault and you should be charged, or yours that I did Y and thus why it is my fault and i should be charged, should be enough to convict. Our self interest makes our testimony suspect without corroboration.

Police are similarly conflicted. It is not just a matter of 'I lied, he should go free' and the end of the conflict. It is 'I will face punishment, lack of promotion, and my record will be sullied' thus my lie not only preserves me but can instead get me commendations and promotions.

Citizens feared (or naïve) did not want to impart such bias and motivations to cops so we gave them the overwhelming benefit of the doubt and anyone who dare suggest other was a pariah.

That was a mistake. A massive one. And something we can no longer deny or turn a blind eye to.



Much more than skeptical. Prosecutors do not bring cases typically based solely on one criminal pointing a finger at another with zero outside corroboration and I think (hope) any who did would
not have a long career as a prosecutor. It should be the exact same re using cops in that regard.

https://youtu.be/_PybkcIco68

17 year old white kid fatally shot by police at traffic stop.
Maybe now more people will listen.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anthon...-officers-desk

Pretty much all cop testimony is self-serving. They want to make the case. That's a real motivation. It looks bad for them if they don't contribute to prosecution. That doesn't mean no cop will ever say anything that helps the defense, but that takes a conscious effort to stick their neck out.

This is trivial, but a cop very casually lied in a case against me in traffic court. I was guilty, but he completely made up me saying something at the stop. I told the court that I was guilty, came to court just in case the cop didn't show, and that he was lying. Obviously no one cared. Low stakes, but that works both ways. A cop saying something that could undo a high-stakes case will be perceived as and think of themselves as betraying the people they are working with.

Juries should be skeptical of all cop testimony.

Are you under some misconception that most people who get shot/killed by police aren't white? Because most of the people who get shot and/or killed by police are white. Just to clear that up real quick in case you were confused.

Are you under some misconception that most people in America aren't white?

A certain type of person will point to this as evidence that there is no racism in police forces, just incompetence.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/12/us/hu...ump/index.html

Sharpton and Crump going to bat for a white teen killed by police.

It's about time we start framing police violence as an issue in and of itself, and not just a blue v black issue.

Just another day at the office

The bodycam videos show the officer took the bag from the other person arrested outside of the car and threw it to the car after that, doesn't look like there's anything shady

You believer that cop edit?!?

Yes? What's there not to believe, I can see where the bag comes, I hear the first guy semi-answering questions about it like he knows it was in his pocket already,, and the first officer even clearly shows the empty back seat moments before throwing it - the police would be doing this really badly if they were planning on planting something.

That's not to say I wouldn't think planting stuff in USA wasn't really common or that police there don't extremely suck. Coming from Finland where police are pretty much protect and serve and shoot around 10 bullets a year (not per police, the total for police force). I've actually had two police officers change a tire on my car when my tools didn't work and asked for help.

I'm just being dumb

Even right after I posted it I saw the police chief statement saying don't base everything off that viral clip. Kind of knew I'd jumped the gun and been had from the get go.

Hah obviously coming from you I should have known. I've just seen so much dumb shaisse lately my detector is completely overwhelmed.

I also first jumped the gun with that video, because throwing random baggies to backseat of stopped car just didn't feel right.

Don't worry, it happens to the best of us. Sometimes you see what you want to see.

The good news is that sensible people in NYC (which automatically excludes the BLM crowd) recognize that criminal behavior is actually a bad thing for their neighbors, friends and relatives. Hence, a new mayor-elect who appears to have an interest in law and order.

What is usually lost on the BLM crowd, is that POC are the greatest victims of crime.

I dunno, it doesnt really look like that. the view is blocked of the other guy. again, you are taking the word of the cop and cops lie bc its their job.

nor do we know what happened to the driver. why throw it on the seat if you dont intend to get the driver on something?

I know how to eliminate "crime". just close down all public spaces and require people to be in their houses at all times.

Or they could just behave themselves. You know, sort of like a vast majority of decent human beings do every single day.

Kind of my thinking. Okay, the cop didn't pull it out his own pocket but chucking it on the backseat is not only horrendous handling of potential evidence but could potentially be used to incriminate the other guy in the car anyway.

If they actually suspect it contained drugs then it needs to be properly handled, or imagine this scenario playing out: one cop threw it on the backseat carelessly, but when another cop on the scene walks over and sees it again, think it's a different bag, and uses that as reasonable suspicion. Or, if the driver doesn't see it happen, the cop then goes ahead with the lie knowing that unless someone checks the body cam later he'll get away with it, at which point he may well have got some other charges to stick.

Quite possible that nothing untoward was intended by the cop in the clip but it's still awfully unprofessional with potentially serious ramifications for the guys in the car. Doesn't exactly instill trust in me to see officers behaving this way even with the context of the cop's bodycam.

Clearly he should've put the empty baggie on the trunk/roof of the car to blow away.

Or in his pocket, so when he quite literally pulls it out of his pocket on camera, we could've posted that video on Twitter instead and had some proper riots in the streets.

It has been a few months since BLM could go snag some free electronics in the name of social justice.