As a jew, the grandchild of two survivors of Auschwitz, with family currently living in Israel, the comparison of current Israeli fascism to the Nazis is apropos. There are of course many differences, but the differences aren't what make the comparison interesting or relevant. The propaganda, the crackdown on cultural resistance to the mainstream hegemony, the militarization, the jingoism, the drawing on myth / bullshit in order to justify treating humans worse than we treat animals, it's all of a piece.

That is not to say that Hamas are also fascist. It's possible for two fascist groups to oppose each other. And it's not at all inconsistent to say that Hamas have intentionally added to the immiseration suffered by the Palestinian people, and intentionally put their own citizens in danger and use them as human shields. But they are the bigger victims here. Israel has the power to make this all go away.

Regarding collective punishment, we in the global north appear to have stopped giving a **** about that a long time ago, eg when not a single person of note opposed private corporations punishing Russian athletes for the crimes of their mother nation.

Well thank god it's only theatre. I was worried for a moment it might be real life for some people.

Israel is, conveniently, not a member of the ICC so there's zero chance of anyone there being held to account in The Hague.

I didn't mean literally, absolutely no coverage of Ukraine. I just meant that it's taken a huge back seat and even before this past weekend when the events in Israel erupted. It has, increasingly, faded from the forefront. When we're investing tens of billions of dollars into the war effort regularly, you'd think it would remain on the front page, so to speak. I'm not trying to fabricate any kind of complexity here. I just genuinely think it may possibly be that complex on it's own.

Of course, it's not very good that we now have so many theatres of war open that we can't even keep up with them all.

For a long time I subscribed to the view of big bad Israel and poor oppressed Palestine. These last views days have opened my eyes and shown I was naive.

I don't know every detail of the history of the conflict and I doubt it is even possible to get an unbiased history. However I know it is Hamas committing mass rapes while their people cheer, not Israel. It is Hamas beheading people for being gay, not Israel. It is Hamas executing Thai and Nepalese students, not Israel.

Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization. The leaders will be safe somewhere in Qatar while the civilians suffer. There can be no peace in Israel if Hamas is allowed to continue.

If it's not called Hamas it's called Taliban or jihad ir isis. So wtf?
WTF is the difference??
You think when you take out Hamas, which you can't, it's all good? lol,
there are about 1.755.345 other groups waiting in the back to fill that spot.

Yeah? Hamas is nothing but a proxy, in this which is exchangable within seconds with millions of jihad warriors. The Syrians aren't happy, the iraqies aren't exactly campers and still have some bills to settle, right? Their homes got blown up and the afghans too.
Why are the israelis blowing up the Palestine schools?

So no, you can't take out Hamas and even if you could that wouldn't change a thing. Like not even the tiniest thing that would change.

And that really says it all about Hamas doesn't it? Despite their rhetoric and freedom fighter narrative, they're just a bunch of bigoted thugs.

like the Irish I reckon. The Irish freedom fighters?

But here these thugs just follow orders from the top imo. From Iran or whatnot. We are talking about an Arabic Muslim country afterall.

Murdering three year olds like Jonathan Ball and 12 year olds like Tim Parry in Warrington isn't freedom fighting Washoe. Or murdering 21 people in Birmingham. Or attempting to use Protestant civilians as proxy suicide bombers. You commit atrocities like that and you have no justification claiming oppression or highlighting your communities grievances, however legitimate you may think your grievances are. I feel repulsed such things were done in Ireland's name as does any other normal thinking Irish person.

You commit mass slaughter of people in Kibbutz's and wilfully target civilians just because they're Jewish and you have zero credibility claiming oppression. Hamas have zero credibility in my eyes.

Support for the Putin is pretty much a plank of the republican party under trump.

Not saying it will be easy, but the Gaza strip is not a big place. They don't have to solve every problem, just the one that lives next door. Not saying that it will become a democratic paradise, but at least they won't have a terrorist group ruling.

Trump is almost 80 years old. I am making a prediction for the future how the world is going to shake up. And where the progressives currently cheering in the streets chanting "From the river to the sea" are going to ultimately land. Time will tell.

Historian Rashid Khalidi predicts the future.

https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10...rael_explosion

This logic is where I think progressive identity politics of oppression goes off the rails. Being (arguably) on the losing side doesn't automatically give someone the moral high ground, and absolve them of all responsibility for their actions. This belief is basically the foundational plank of the progressive oppression narrative.

Who gives the **** if they are bigger victims. They are the ones going door to door executing families. You cant just hand waive that away. They need to go. There is no place for Hamas in the world moving forward. You can show as many YouTube of as many historians as you want giving justification for the actions, and that isn't going to change.

Progressives are going to have to realize this, and start working on making a better world where someone else is running the Gaza Strip.

Honestly, I would approve of my tax dollars being used to relocate every last non militant living in Gaza, and give them a chance to start over. And I suspect if we really gave them the chance, they would do so, and they would thrive.

However, I know the Arab world would fight tooth and nail to stop this. The Palestinians are exactly where the rest of the Arab World wants them to be, in the exact condition they want. There is a reason none of the Palestinians so called "brothers" will allow them in their countries. They are nothing but disposable pawns.

I am not in control of your deliberate attempt to misread what I said. I have no responsibility for you choosing to interpret my words as something other than what I've said. You keep on doing you, though.

Do you think we could and should move forward towards a future that involves Hamas continuing to run Gaza?

I just noticed I implied that I didn't think Hamas were fascist. I definitely think they're fascist. Where I said 'That is not to say that Hamas are also fascist', just read instead 'not fascist'.

I don't know if you think you're setting me up for some trap or something, but obviously I don't want Hamas to be in charge.

In terms of obstacles to peace, it's not clear to me whether Hamas having a stranglehold on politics in Palestine is worse than the current fascists in charge in the Knesset. I suspect it's the latter, but, realistically, both of them need to go before we have any realistic shot at peace.

You're arguing with a strawman. All Israel is doing at this point is refusing to continue to sell electricity to Palestine as they were prior to getting attacked by Palestine.

Hamas and the current Israeli government mutually depend on each other to some extent, which is a bitter irony. If Hamas didn’t exist then fewer Israelis would feel obliged to elect an authoritarian government. Similarly if the Israelis elected a less authoritarian government, fewer Palestinians would feel obliged to support Hamas.

So yes they both need to go, although I doubt that is happening any time soon.

Israel has complete control over their water. Since this is true, we know Gaza is not autonomous. If Gaza is subservient to Israel and they have complete control, why’re they turning off the water? If there is no water for a month, how many kids die, 500k?

Shocking that Kelhus is promoting another wild lie about what the MSM is or is not covering.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...deis-daughter/

Kel, if you are going to attempt to remain under the radar on your next account after this one gets nuked, you are really going to learn that "wave" is the thing you do with your hands. Pretty sure you've been corrected about half a dozen times on this in the last 2-3 years. I actually recall you making the same mistake less than an hour after you acknowledged one of the corrections.

Your apparent amnesia may explain why you claim that the MSM hasn't covered stories it has actually covered.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...rchid=65744679
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...rchid=65744675

Why would he bother? He makes no effort to disguise his posting and the powers that be are fine with it. I'm pretty sure the handwaive thing is deliberate.

Nah. What possible purpose does it serve? Pretty sure he is not attempting to look like a dumbass on purpose.