Thanks, Bryce.

FWIW, you were never a problem. I don't always agree with you, but you always post respectfully and in good faith. If everyone posted in your style, there would be no need for moderation.

Thank you.

Anything which assists a gender identity to supplant the self is anti-progress. The trans movement is fundamentally a movement of gender identity supplanting the self. The same anti-progress is happening when a racial identity or sexual identity supplants the self.

There is a fatal misunderstanding among progressives in the mistaken belief that progress is led by group identity, when it’s actually individual self-development that leads to progress. The self is universal, which means it’s useless in the domain of group-identity-politics.

Therefore, it can’t be both. It’s one or the other. If you pick the side of group-identity-politics, then you are my enemy because you’re choosing anti-progress.

I want people to leave other people alone. I also want the government to stay out of peoples business. Its the opposite of group identity or identity politics.

Yall are the ones trying to limits certain peoples rights and make everyone else like you. That is quite literally group identity and group identity politics.

What group am I trying to make people join?

No need for you to debate it at all if you're not interested, but your opinion on this issue is no more important than mine. We are arguing about what laws should be here. There is an entire US federal government agency which does nothing but control what medical care is considered to be acceptable by society. There are official regulations about tongue depressors. This issue seems a bit more important than tongue depressor specifications. But if you think no one should have any control over anyone else's medical treatments, then you'll have to insist on dismantling the entire FDA plus allow anyone who buys a dirty scalpel to perform any surgery on any child whose parents agree to it.

If you want to make a thread about teenage breast reduction I'll argue in there as well. I'm just posting in a thread that was started by someone else here; it doesn't reflect my opinions on what are the most important things to worry about.

I'm not "campaigning" on this issue any more than I am on those, but I have also debated those topics in these forums (and elsewhere), for the same reasons you have.

Funny, this is what those on the right wing generally claim.

In reality, those on both the left and the right want the government to regulate other people's business but to stay out of their own, and they both seem to think the reasons are self-evident.

Is there any area in your life where you felt the proper answer to the inquiry was, "mind your own business" no matter who was asking the question?

For me,it relatively simple- things I do with and say to my spouse, things I tell my Minister, things I do with my doctor and things I tell my attorney. Do you know what they all have in common?

Neither republicans nor democrats represent my values. It would be difficult to encapsulate a world so complex with so many people into two sets of beliefs.

Immigration, lgbtq, abortion, none of this matters to me politically. Let people do what they want. I care about monetary policy, quality of life, quality of education. All we talk about are things that don’t matter in the long run.

Pretty sure that is by design

You do an awful lot of angry arguing about something that doesn't matter to you.

1. None that I can think of. I would answer any question asked by my sister, my therapist or a woman I was seriously dating. I have told lots of things to people at a poker table that others wouldn't tell friends in private.

2. Not particularly. I know your spouse and attorney generally can't be forced to testify against you. Ministers are supposed to alert the authorities if they think you're likely to hurt someone. I don't know what privileges are extended to the doctor-patient relationship.

But I don't have a spouse, a minister, or an attorney, and I have never had a long-term relationship with any doctor, so I'm not an expert in those relationships.

I’ve either calmly called out or outright mocked most of the worst takes. Don’t remember being angry ever but it’s possible.

But I guess I need to explain that when I say lgbtq doesn’t matter to me politically, I mean that in a perfect world they would be treated like any other human and we wouldn’t have to protect them from horrible discrimination but some people are just generally awful and I guess we have to step in and remind people that discriminating again classes of people and limiting their rights is generally atrocious behavior. You would think that is pretty self evident.

And I say that as a matter of fact, not as some angry rant.

I know my general message of “be more empathetic and accepting” and “don’t restrict people’s right or ability to seek medical treatment” is pretty angry and confusing so I’ll give everyone a pass for thinking it’s politically charged

This is an example of outright mockery of it’s not clear

This "general message" as stated here does not sound angry or insulting. Most of your posts on the subject definitely do.

I don't believe for a second that you are in favour of minors being treated like parental property.

And if you agree that the rest of society has some sort of duty to limit parental authority when it directly conflicts with the well being of a minor, then it's about whether being medicated with drugs that cause sterility very often is a proper tradeoff to try to reduce mental distress.

We cannot just look away and let people do their thing without limit because we aren't talking people who can choose for themselves.

Very curious, why does the bracket include 18 and 19 years old lol? Those are legally adult, we aren't discussing banning hormones or gender affirming surgery for them why would we discuss banning cosmetic surgery for them?

And I have a feeling the vast majority of those 230k procedures are performed on 18-19 years old.

That said, breast augmentation doesn't sterilize you afaik, so it's far less problematic than puberty blockers.

But yes I would definitely agree to ban the procedure on 13-17 y old girls, unless it can treat some objective medical condition I am not aware of, in which case it could be used, but not for purely aesthetic reasons.

Keep in mind purely aesthetic breast enlargement is banned in Italy (and I think many other eu countries) for minors so yours is not like a kind of gotcha, it's actually the same topic.

Same for nose jobs, liposuction and the like.

Reconstruction following accidents I hope you can see why that's a different thing though

Dumb question but when will we see the race identity movement take strength once that gender thing is done ?
It got to be next right ?

racial imposter syndrome

“ It occurs when your internal sense of self doesn't match with others' perception of your racial identity and gives rise to a feeling of self-doubt. It's usually experienced by people like me, living in countries where we are an ethnic minority.”

You don’t understand our age 18 v 21 issues? Any evidence puberty blockers cause sterilization?

Ya so try not to miscontrue this stance as being principled, it's really just expedient.

Didn't expect a good response to my questions in this thread from either coordi or SpacemanBryce, and got no response instead, so not much point in being here. Vaya con Dios, one and all.

Your whole gender is a social construct schtick was played out by Luckbox over the last few years. It was no wonder you were ignored the multiple times you raised the same issue. Adios, amigo.

What do you think it is?

If we can’t hold contradiction, then we will be unable to truly progress.

The truth that gender is wed to bio-sex is the first truth held in one hand, and the truth that gender transcends bio-sex is a later truth held in the other hand. The second truth is not to negate the first, and it won’t as long as the self is not supplanted by a gender identity.

Coherence must be sacrificed up for the promise of a deeper, more coherent truth.