The costs of trans visibility - Page 150 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

If man and woman are the words for socially constructed genders, which are the words for the biological sexes?

If being trans means "being the gender you claim" isn't everyone trans?

There is no “transgenderism”. Trans people were incorrectly assigned a gender and treated as a gender they are not. Cisgender people were correctly assigned a gender and treated correctly. So most people are cisgender.

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02-06-2024 , 05:27 PM

#3727

Luciom

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

If the totally of the problem was other people treating them "as a gender they were not", why are any body modification necessary for them to come whole? Isn't social acceptance of them being the gender they claim the only thing, under your definition?

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02-06-2024 , 05:47 PM

#3728

spaceman Bryce

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

It’s not always necessary, which answers jjlous question about why there is such a small number of the surgeries done compared the number of non-binary and trans people. However these surgeries often help trans people be seen as the gender they actually are(amongst other things) which is important for your well being. Being seen and treated as the wrong gender is very hurtful. Trans people are currently pretty far from being treated as equals in society at large; it’s discrimination.

By the way it’s weird that every thread about trans people becomes a discussion about surgery, it’s a very private matter and has nothing to do with the op.

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02-06-2024 , 05:49 PM

#3729

Luciom

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Sorry but permanent modifications to minors, which ones are allowed, to which extent, why and so on are very much a public not private topic.

Very early in the thread I made it clear I could care less what adult trans people do, if they pay out of pocket.

If someone wants to charge the public for something though, it again becomes a public topic not a private one.

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02-06-2024 , 05:50 PM

#3730

spaceman Bryce

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We should be talking more about people like Dylan Mulvaney and people like Brianna Ghey in this thread. But it’s clear to me that many aren’t interested in sincere discussions about people like that; this thread shows you some of the costs of trans visibility.

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02-06-2024 , 05:51 PM

#3731

spaceman Bryce

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Originally Posted by Luciom

But over 99% of surgeries on minors are performed on cisgender minors. It seems like an odd thing to excessively talk about

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02-06-2024 , 05:53 PM

#3732

Luciom

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

But over 99% of surgeries on minors are performed on cisgender minors. It seems like an odd thing to excessively talk about

We wouldn't talk much about it if after banning the practice for minors we didn't hear that "we were causing the suicide of trans youth" you know?

Also it's not just about surgery, puberty blockers ban for disphoria is being discussed (and legislated) as well

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02-06-2024 , 05:57 PM

#3733

spaceman Bryce

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Discrimination is causing the suicides of trans youth. The ways of thinking proposed by a number of posters in threads like these is causing suicides in lgbtq communities right now.

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02-06-2024 , 05:58 PM

#3734

Luciom

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

Discrimination is causing the suicides of trans youth. The ways of thinking proposed by a number of posters in threads like these is causing suicides in lgbtq communities right now.

When a natural condition becomes medicalized and treated as a disease, that can cause mental distress as well

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02-06-2024 , 06:00 PM

#3735

chillrob

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

But over 99% of surgeries on minors are performed on cisgender minors. It seems like an odd thing to excessively talk about

No one is concerned about the surgeries on minors that are done to treat diseases or injuries.

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02-06-2024 , 07:01 PM

#3736

TookashotatChan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

Being transgender is innate like hair and eye color.

Gender is a social construction

Biological sex is not gender.

If gender is a social construct, how can it be innate?

If gender is a social construct, then how does surgically altering the genitals (associated with biological SEX, and objective--a penis is a penis, etc) help gender dysphoria?

Gender is either totally, partly, or not at all determined by genitals. If it's not at all determined by genitals (it's a social construct), then how does altering the genitals help dysphoria?

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02-06-2024 , 07:04 PM

#3737

craig1120

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

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Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

Discrimination is causing the suicides of trans youth. The ways of thinking proposed by a number of posters in threads like these is causing suicides in lgbtq communities right now.

You’re a propagandist with no authority on the mind or on gender. Your posts are not going to age well.

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02-06-2024 , 07:05 PM

#3738

TookashotatChan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceman Bryce

Race is also a social construction.
Just as black people in america have innate characteristics they are born with that make them black in america so too do trans people, despite race and gender being social constructions.

Again, if race is a social construction, how can race be innate? It can't be both.

If race is a social construction, whence lies racism? Or maybe racism is a social construction too?

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02-06-2024 , 07:10 PM

#3739

coordi

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Originally Posted by chillrob

No one is concerned about the surgeries on minors that are done to treat diseases or injuries.

The question then becomes, why are you so concerned about .000008% of the under 18 population getting surgeries deemed medically pertinent by health care professionals?

Certainly there are more important and bigger issues to be concerned about?

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02-06-2024 , 07:18 PM

#3740

TookashotatChan

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Originally Posted by coordi

I mean the obvious answer is he cares about the welfare of children.

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02-06-2024 , 07:19 PM

#3741

coordi

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Ah yes, Transgenderism is a jewish construct to obliterate white culture. I learn so much from you guys.

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02-06-2024 , 07:21 PM

#3742

spaceman Bryce

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Coordi, your posts are excellent.

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02-06-2024 , 07:21 PM

#3743

coordi

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Originally Posted by TookashotatChan

I mean the obvious answer is he cares about the welfare of children.

That is why i added the part about being deemed medically pertinent by health care professionals

Are you implying that you know better than health care professionals? Why would you think that? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the subject offending your sensibilities. Couldn't possible be that!

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02-06-2024 , 07:21 PM

#3744

Luciom

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Originally Posted by coordi

17k minors started puberty blockers from 2018 to 2022 (insurance covered, + unknown amounts paying out of pocket).

I am concerned for almost all of them as well, that's at least 6k sterilized minors if we are lucky and it's statistically reversible in two third of cases, and only if we act now banning the procedure (prescription of puberty blockers in gender disphoric minors).

And that was at the end of 2022.

Tens of kids everyday start their medical sterilization.

How big do you need the number to be before you are concerned?

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02-06-2024 , 07:23 PM

#3745

Luciom

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Originally Posted by coordi

That is why i added the part about being deemed medically pertinent by health care professionals part

Are you implying that you know better than health care professionals? Why would you think that? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the subject offending your sensibilities. Couldn't possible be that!

We do imply a portion of healthcare professionals have been irredimably corrupted by a pseudo-religious belief that has no scientific basis which is the idea that "trans youth" exists in any meaningful amount

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02-06-2024 , 07:40 PM

#3746

craig1120

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Originally Posted by coordi

I do know better than these “professionals” who offer GAC. I’m going to offer an alternative and compete against GAC for free, eventually exposing it for the disgrace it is.

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02-06-2024 , 07:44 PM

#3747

coordi

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Originally Posted by Luciom

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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02-06-2024 , 07:46 PM

#3748

TookashotatChan

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Originally Posted by coordi

Have you thought there might be forces at work inside 'medical professionalism' that don't have the best interests of people in mind, at least sometimes? And that maybe he thinks this is one of those times?

Assenting to authority, especially when a good portion of that authority is financially motivated isn't very critical minded, wouldn't you say?

That's not even mentioning the fact this topic is pretty hotly debated inside the medical community, and is anything but a consensus, which you seem to imply.

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02-06-2024 , 07:46 PM

#3749

coordi

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Originally Posted by craig1120

I do know better than these “professionals” who offer GAC. I’m going to offer an alternative and compete against GAC for free, eventually exposing it for the disgrace it is.

I am at the edge of my seat with excitement