Meanwhile, in the Labour leadership contest, Keir Starmer has got the backing of the country's largest trade union. McCluskey of Unite may dominate the current leadership clique, but Unison is bigger.



The Continuity Corbyn candidates have gained this golden nomination.



Which may or may not do them much good, as the current leadership clique is failing. The Met Commissioner says there have been six arrests of former Labour Party members under the Public Order Act in connection with anti-Semitic activity, with five files passed to the CPS.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...sm-met-police/

Those arrests derive from just one batch of leaked information regarding submissions to the EHRC. When the EHRC reports, there could be further criminal and civil actions. It is not especially likely that the current leadership, which brought all the cranks to the yard, will end up looking good.

As for Barry Gardiner:-



...I think we'll just draw a polite veil over that.

Here, incidentally, is Richard Burgon, John McDonnell's and Diane Abbott's Continuity Corbyn pick for deputy leader, saying something very Corbyn but a bit problematic and then falsely denying he said it.

I for one am looking forward to seeing how this increase in trade with the EU will be realised, especially in regard to services.

So far
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51055663
Lisa Nandy seems to be impressing.

Barry Gardiner must have taken soundings on whether he should stand and not got the sarcasm.

<3 Nandy

I used to like Clive Lewis but he started saying things that made no sense so I went off him. After watching QT today I can't get away from the fact that I think he is largely spot on and I'm wondering about the weird things he says - he said about Iran crises, 'no sign of Boris, still on holiday' (I paraphrase) which not only is obviously untrue but I know he knows it's untrue. He says it with such a straight face but when called up it's clear he knows he is having a witty dig. - maybe that's what he has been doing for years which makes me like him more but he can't get away with it as a serious politician.

He has no chance anyway but maybe one day.

And I also wish after making his racism point he had said he doesn't give a **** about all these royals. We tolerate them but seriously ...

He has spoken some sense of late, I keep looking at the horizon to see if The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are on their way.

Nandy is the most "impressive" of the centrists and is a convincing debater, but apart from consulting the public I'm still not clear what she stands for, and there's a fear of a return to vacuous Blairism under her; Starmer seems to be trying to position himself to the left of her and possibly to the left of where he really is. Phillips is an admirable politician in many ways but it's hard to think that voters will elect PM Phillips. Lewis is probably not serious enough to become leader, unfortunately.

I'm unsure about LN as well. She was backed by Owen Jones some time ago which is very encouraging but then she backed Owen Smith which distinctly isn't.

Phillips could, ultimately, be electable (she's a deal more likeable and less offputting, on the whole, than Margaret Thatcher, who was considered a joke until she actually got into No.10), but she doesn't seem to have the votes among the party membership, unless the campaign takes a rather dynamic turn. She is probably in fact showing her credentials with press and public to bid for a good post in the eventual winner's Shadow Cabinet, with a view to going for the leadership next time once she's gained more exposure and built up her following.

Phillips is the only candidate willing to state the obvious - Corbyn is the worst leader in Labour's history and a contender for worst major party leader in British political history. She won't win but might force the other candidates to admit the uncomfortable but undeniable truth that Corbyn is a sectarian, racist, unelectable, economically illiterate clown who, when faced with one of the most unpopular governments in history, led Labour to their worst election result since 1935.

The other candidates are all too scared of the membership and perpetuate the alternate reality argument that Corbyn's 4.5 years was some sort of great success.

Incidentally, the 42% of the public, by far the largest cohort, who give Corbyn 0/10, like Jess, include 21% of Labour voters. (Only 4% of the public, including just 9% of Labour voters, agree with Wrong-Daily and give Corbyn 10/10.)



All the same, Starmer may have been a bit more canny in diplomatically refusing to rate Corbyn at all. But Phillips may profit if Starmer wins, and then fails.

I think Phillips will win.

I hope she does. We need an opposition leader with a bit of spine and charisma.

If Starmer wins, failing will mean losing the usual two tilts at a GE which takes us up to 2029 assuming the FTPA is still in place.

It's inconceivable that any competent Labour leader without a dodgy past won't win in 2024 or 2029 because, as always, the rot in the form of corruption and scandals will have set in in Downing St and the government to such a degree that the public will be looking for a way out by then (assuming we haven't become a quasi-fascist state with a media too cowed by constant bullying to report the facts, which is quite an assumption).

Amazing how often inconceivable things keep on happening. Labour need to offer something positive, being competent alone isn't enough to come close to guaranteeing winning.

It's also easily conceivable we win the next election if we offer something positive - even if boris is doing ok (whatever that means to people). Whether it's likely is another matter - that depends on a lot.

I'll be very surprised if JP wins but she is the 'rejoin' candidate even if she is playing it down a bit at the moment. You'll like that

Rejoining the EU? lolz

Nothing that's happened so far (Brexit, Trump, Labour massacre) was hard to predict given the economic situation, let alone inconceivable.

My point was that if any competent Labour leader without a dodgy past should be a favourite to win after another 5 years of this (unless Johnson is a different kind of animal to what we think), it's a strong argument in favour of leftist policies as long as they can be presented to a timid electorate as centrist policies in most of Europe (which most can).

Any competent leader can have leftist policies but they will need to show those policies are credible and get rid of the ones that are seen as fairly needless. A competent leader will also need to take on the left wing of the party that has spent the last few years abusing those in the party who don't share 100% of their views, telling everyone else to '**** off and vote tory then' and somehow trying to turn the word 'centrist', which most of the electorate are, into a dirty word. It would probably also be a good idea if they spent less time attacking the last Labour government, an incredibly stupid idea, and focused on the here and now.

Every single thing is proof that Labour need Corbynism, even Labour losing every single election under Corbyn. It's amazing.

My problem with this is that it's the sort of complacent thinking that could get us something like KS* holding boris to account forensically and offering some left leaning version of much the same. Boris will be favorite after 5 years if that happens and although he may be tainted after 10, the tories are quite capable of chucking him out and offering something 'new'. And if we do somehow win, will we do anything or just cement boris' changes watered down a bit until the tories win again?

And I think you do massively underestimate boris. The left will hate him but he has very good chance of playing well to the electorate (and he can even compete with the mocking game). The electorate is not generally timid at all - if they were we wouldn't be in the current mess. They are desperate for big change and if we don't offer it then others will.

Labour need to spend the next 2-3 years preparing well thought out policies, including some radical ones, and proceeding under the assumption (if unstated) that brexit will go ok. Remember the voters we need voted for brexit and if they think its' going ok wjile labour insist it isn't then were absolutely ****ed.

*Don't want to have too much of a go at KS, he may turn out to be a radical leader but I fear he sees it your way - competent and a bit lefty will do the job.

Maybe you're not aware of this but most of Labour's manifesto commitments are centrist policies in major European countries. The were (stupidly imo) branded as revolutionary by JMD because the shift from how far rightwards the UK has moved since 79 back to a central European position would indeed be quite revolutionary.

So no, there's no complacency as you call it. Labour obviously needs a policy review and hopefully out of that will eventually come a manifesto for 2024 with fewer commitments than 2019, but which are broadly the same.

The presentation was bad and as well as not liking the leadership and Northern heartlands not liking the Brexit stance, people clearly didn't trust Labour's spending plans in such a wide-ranging manifesto that was more like a 10-15 year plan. The architect of the manifesto himself, JMD, has admitted as much and taken responsibility for it, so I don't really know what you're advocating apart from a very long suicide for the party and the resulting decade plus of increasingly right wing policies and hatred.

Now, with Brexit out of the way and a new viable leader the main thing to avoid is giving too much publicity to your equivalents in the party who foolishly think, with no evidence at all, that the British people are anything other than highly politically cautious by nature until pushed to the very limit.

Indeed. That's because we have had tories and near tories in power since the late 70s. It's not because the people are timed, it's because labour gave up on being left wing. The triumph of thatcherism was in selling to the labour party.

That doesn't follow at all. Labour need to offer a lot more than competency if we want to have a good chance to win. thinking competency will be enough because boris/tory/whatever is complacent

Yes if competency is made with some well thought out radical polices then good stuff. Needs some new thinking as well which is why I would rather a younger generation had ago. Needs to be positive and inspirational if we want to win over voters

That's not entirely true. Corbynist outriders (happily now pretty irrelevant) used to claim, 'We're just the same as those nice Scandis,' but that was a lie. In Denmark, for instance, even the fire brigades are privatised.

It's also an issue of personalities, confidence and trust. Under Corbynism, national assets would not be run in the way that Electricite de France or Deutsche Bahn are run. They would be handed to cronies to mismanage for personal profit, on the organised-crime model seen in places like Russia, Egypt, China, North Korea and Iran. The kind of regimes that Corbynists like.

The test for the next Labour leader is whether they completely scour that lot out or not. The EHRC report may help in that regard. We don't know what it will say, but it probably will not do the Corbyn leadership clique and their cult followers any favours.

You should recall how well Mr Kinnock fared in polls against a less than popular Major, even before the Oggy Oggy Oggy triumphalist fiasco, and Mr Foot before him.

You're just plain wrong about this. The only time in 75 years that the British public voted for a radical left manifesto was in 1945 when people had indeed been pushed to the very limit.

Just look at the Labour leaders who've won elections - Wilson and Blair, both total wash outs in terms of radicalism, both multiple election winners.

The only way you'll get a radical left Labour government is if it conceals its intentions.

Well obviously that's what I'm arguing for, but on a don't scare the natives basis.