Hello Everyone,

It's been a long time since I posted. However, I do check this thread several times a day.

Since WSEX began the 100% and subsequently 75% rakeback, we have given away millions of dollars in rakeback. At the same time, the poker room has had millions of dollars in losses. It has not been anywhere close to break even for us.

One of my responsibilities was to turn the software around from the piece of garbage it was in early 2006. It seems to work fine now. I rarely hear any software complaints.

I brought in Jeremy to help grow the room and get it to turn a profit. Originally he proposed the scaled rakeback, but after multiple complaints here as well as recognizing how much it hurt the smaller player, he decided on 65%. Something had to give if we were going to keep the room open.

We do plan on offering deposit bonuses next month as soon as the software is set up for it.

Teflon Dog,

I and I alone am responsible for closing your account. You don't seem happy here. For some time, not just your last few posts you have railed against WSEX's poker room. We can take constructive criticism very well. We respond to it, we fix things. I don't think your comments ever fall into that category.

After reading your chat log in post #152, I spoke to my poker manager about closing your account. I held off. But, once I read your comments in post #169, I immediately told them to close your account. I am not going to sit here an let you refer to my staff as incompetent monkeys that BS and do shoddy work.

Be happy, you don't have to play with us any more.

Back to everyone else,

Anyone who has had any dealings with us know we handle things in a professional manner. We have been in the online gambling business since 1996. We have done more to fight for your right to gamble online than any other company and will continue to do so.

Jeremy and I are still committed to making this poker room work. The easy route would be to pull the plug. Both of us check this thread daily and do follow up on issues that are raised.

All the best,

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

No, this is not the way it works anywhere I know of.

On WSEX the method is dealt. This means the rake taken in a certain hand is divided equally among all players who were dealt cards in the hand.

No, it is dealt. Say there are 5 players dealt in and the total rake was $2. It would be $2 divided by 5 players, and you would receive 75% of that, $0.30.

You can verify this with pokertracker in the Game Notes tab by looking at the MGR column and taking 75% of that number, well... 65% now.

Fred,

Welcome to the internet, where people have bigger mouths than in real life.

WSEX pokerroom support has been sub-par for years. Teflon Dog has experienced this multiple times. Grow a skin, and try to see what can be learned from the negative comments. You are really overreacting here.

Furthermore, anyone else who has (more constructive) criticisms and suggestions will think twice before posting them, or about playing on your site.

It's funny, I read the following quote this morning:

"There are only two ways of telling the complete truth--anonymously and posthumously."
-Thomas Sowell

I support the scaled rakeback and changes since my god the VIP's have been incredibly generous in past and am desperate to see new players somehow find their way to the most value packed poker site in world.

I have saved 26 ,000 in rake now at wsex and tell everyone I can at other sites about the reduced fees wsex has to offer. I imagine permanently they will offer around 65% cuz thats why people came there basically in the first place.

I support the new changes and think the software looks just as good as stars or tilt.

mike.. acesinurface

I was literally getting ready to redeposit until I read the latest revelations. I agree that the guy was a jerk but after no warning you just straight up ban his account. And only let him know in a round about dramatic way. Wow.

You guys get more traffic than you deserve.

If this were an isolated incident I would have let it pass. Anyone who wishes to take the time to read all of Teflon's past posts will see that they are nasty and not constructive.

It's clear we can never make him happy with us.

Constructive criticism and even semi-constructive criticism is still welcome and encouraged.

Fred
WSEX.com

Very true, and i thank you for this. and as far out of it as support has been at times they seem to always make things right.. eventually

As for me, Ive been playing at your site since party closed their doors. And i understand having to make a profit, but offering new sign ups 100% and dropping myself another 10%, well thats about all i can take.

good luck

WSEX GM - Thanks for posting again and addressing that issue.
It's your call and even though you perhaps likely overreacted I don't see it as THAT big a deal. The guy is getting all his money back afterall and you should be free to decide what customers you want at your place of business.
Still a bit sketchy on the decision I think but you seem to have given it quite a bit of thought.

Please respond to the idea that he was actually correct about the rakeback methods on your site and that your support is wrong. This has been the case for some time and after it was pointed out to you on multiple occasions I find it pretty unprofessional that your own customer-support doesn't even understand how the rakeback works on their own site.
If it was an isolated incident then that's one thing. But they have made this mistake about not knowing how their own site works many many times and you have also been told before that you should train your support better and/or fix whatever training they are getting that is giving them the wrong information. Granted, most of this discussion was a couple years ago but it still remains unfixed and strikes me as really unprofessional too.
People like stealth are in this thread and are really confused. They can't believe the rakeback isn't the way WSEX told him it was and has to be told multiple times by people on here that we really are right and that WSEX support really is wrong.

I would also like you to address the idea of giving new customers to your site 100% rakeback. Your most loyal customers have been there for the past months and years. Shouldn't they be given first crack at the 100% thing? Let the new customers have 65% but grandfather the current customers/accounts in at 100%. Doesn't that make more sense to reward the people who deserve it the most?

Addressing the cashouts issue again would be nice too. I'm thinking of depositing for the football-season deposit-bonus promo I received via e-mail but if it really takes 30+ days to cashout I'm not sure I want to.

I reiterate that I'm not really a customer of your site anymore except for the occasional sports bet and I'm mostly just a curious person who used to be part of your site. As always, I am still pulling for you guys but some of this latest stuff really is making it difficult.

The rakeback is dealt the dealt method, the same as it has always been. I will make sure the staff undertstands the question and the difference from here forward. I will also add it to our FAQ's.

I am going to leave the percentage questions for Jeremy. It's his domain now.

Regular mail cashouts take a long time, sometimes longer than the 20 business days we post on our site. Courier withdrawals are much faster and if you don't receive the courier withdrawal within the stated time, we do refund the charge for it.

I wish I had better news on the processing front, but thanks to hostile actions by the United States, this is where we are at.

Fred

Thanks WSEX GM.
It's not looking good for you guys lately publicity-wise but if you continue to represent yourself professionally in these discussions you may very well get past this.

Definitely think you should consider 100% for your most loyal customers from the past couple years (of which I most certainly would not qualify). These are the people who have been there day-in and day-out keeping the poker-room going and getting those tables up and running. Do the right thing and reward them for their loyalty.
Don't reward a bunch of noob's just because they were never interested in your site before so don't have an account. They aren't the ones who deserve it.

WSEX GM:

Like I always said, and this will not only applies to your poker room, but also to your sports book business.

I don't care how good the incentive there is to play at your site or how good and professional your service is (which I find worse and worse), it will not help unless you find ways to IMPROVE YOUR FUNDING METHOD.

Do you think any recreational player will want to deposit into your site when it cost them $50 just to get a check worth couple hundred and worse yet, wait anywhere between 3 weeks to a month for express cashout???? And 2 months of waiting time for a regular check? (Put your self into other's postion)

Same principle applies to deposit.

Now, I understand you don't want this to happen, and it's not really your fault. But you're engaged in a business world, other business won't slow down just to wait for you, and majority of your client won't care when they have many other choice to choose from. So, it's really up to you, it's really your problem to improve it or be left in the dust. BUSINESS=COMPETITION; THE STRONGEST SURVIVE.

Mark my words again, if the funding methods doesn't improve, it will be the same in August 09, and yes, nothing else matters. This is your priority.

This is actually a very good point. It was only when Cake became well-known on 2+2 as a fish bowl that the percentage seeing flop in FR games subsequently dropped into the teens and single digits. Does correlation mean causation? Well, I don't know in general, but in Cake's case, I DO believe the one caused the other.

Further, I believe the toughness of games at Stars and Tilt is largely attributable in part to the fact that getting set up with HUD's and PT and other poker assistance software as a means of assuming a kind of Arch Poker Demon persona is simply paint-by-numbers for those who are heavy use members of 2+2 - as opposed to many of the rest of us who are recreational players, and just looking to make a little extra money in our down time and just playing by ear.

So while more traffic is nice, that growth in traffic ideally makes the games softer, not tougher. So if these changes somehow make the games softer, I'm all for them.

And I strongly oppose any software other than poker tracker.

How about it Wsex_Jeremy?

questions - You vastly overestimate the 'paint by numbers' aspect of playing with PT or a PAHud. Seriously. It's not like that at all really. It's helpful especially if you are on multiple tables but it doesn't play the hands for you. There are LOTS of players who use the HUD's, etc who are just plain lousy at the pokers.

I don't think this thread should be about that though. We've been around that subject about a zillion times and I think we have more important stuff going on with WSEX these days.

why are we revisiting this, he said along time ago HUDs and Poker Tracker are fine on the HH tables, and since all are HH tables now, it is not an issue, I think.

Okay, sorry. I was actually catching up on the thread, and responding to sequential posts, after which Fred posted.

Anyway.

A warning would have been the "Professional" thing to do ... but it is your site so ban away!

btw: I don't care but I thought borh parties "take" was funny. Clearly someone took their ball and went home.

Why not have like : 65% for players that have 0-99 in rake for the week
75% for 101-300
85% for 301+

Make it seem like your getting a deal to play more on the site, which in turn makes more for the site. Make players want to play more than 1 table on your site instead of playing 8 of tilt and 1 on wpex.

I like that idea ... the more you play the more you keep

I haven't read over all the comments since the last time I posted, but I wanted to let WPX Jeremy and GM that the boycott I've been organizing is just a list of people mad about the new change. I intend to give them full information on everything thats happened and happening, including links to this thread.
I had originally planned to not have the boycott until I learned further about the new deposit bonuses... didn't really consider that you guys may have finally decided to advertise seriously, which is a GREAT decision. That alone would be worth the 10% cut... assuming your definition of increased advertising is noticable. I'm sending an email to all interested so far
Hi, Thank you for the interest in the boycott. I've come across new information in http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=266263&page=3 by WSEX and I am pausing any action until the deposit bonuses and advertising changes are made explicit. Updates will be posted in that forum and major updates will be emailed as well

cliffnotes: plz don't ban me I luv ur site

An organized boycott is silly, really. Quit it. Either play on WSEX or don't.

Maybe it's just me... I'm getting sick of the millions of useless internet petitions and boycotts (which usually are just an important sounding name for a stupid post on an internet forum).

I have used WSX Live Chat a few times. I was getting pissed too, the service was unreal. I had a quick question, and it took 30 MINUTES to get through the conversation. The support person took 5 minutes to answer a single question with any response. It was worse than Dell's live chat with their form responses. I just with when talking with support then actually responded in a timely manner. I have also emailed a few times about things and maybe half of the emails ever get replies.

On another note, to WSEX GM: Do you know when the payment processing will be going? I had a courier withdrawal taken out a month ago, apparently the check was sent to me then returned when the processor changed. I was told I would have it this week, but now they said not sure. Do you have any idea the timeframe on pending cashouts??