Wow, it is tragic if they ban Teflon just for voicing his opinions here! In the past they have let so many DC-CHEATERS/BLIND-SKIPPERS continue to play. That is way worse than being pissed off in a forum or in a chat-session. Don't we all tilt a lil from time to time? Atlest now I know not to post my nick.....

That's just wsex as usual. The same way they did it when going from 100% to 75%. I played week(s) before someone mentioned it in the chat. And still several months later there were players that didn't know.

I think they should have the regulars as props as well. Who wants to sit with props making 100% -great for tight players rakeshare- of our money? Atleast they should have waited until there were more players at the site and better game-selection. Now the regulars function just as props.

I don't know if it was just because he voiced his opinion here.
I suspect they are banning him because he was abusive.

Of all the things I have problems with WSEX about them closing his account is not among them. His behavior was pretty inappropriate.

I don't think it's particularly infuriating.
She might have even thought you meant that you can't just "sit out at the table and collect rakeback" which I believe she said something similar to in your original conversation.

That chat was a combination of you getting way upset, them having no idea what kind of rakeback they give (or being able to explain it clearly), and them also not fully understanding what you are driving at.
I don't think you realized the part about them not understanding what you were driving at though because you were so busy being upset but it was incredibly obvious to me.

I don't blame them for closing your account since it's entirely possible you could show up on their tables and continue to bad-mouth them.

Anyway, here's the part of the convo I'm referring to:



The first part: "Only if you pay the blind" can be interpreted to mean that you paid the blinds for the whole orbit...it doesn't have to mean that you paid at least the blind on THAT hand and that you had to contribute to the pot to get rakeback-credit for it.

Then she says: "Do you expect to just sit at a table and receive rakeback?"
Implying that she thinks the player is talking about being able to sit-out at the table and receive rakeback (at least that's one possible interpretation).

It's clear to me that English might not be her first language and there may have been a serious miscommunication in the discussion.
I thought that the first time I read through it. She was trying to explain the way she thought it was done and wasn't doing so hot and the poster was overreacting and not realizing he might have been misconstruing what she was saying.

I didn't bring that up before because I thought his behavior and tone were more noteworthy.


However you later go to the supervisor and they are clearly incorrect and there can be no misinterpretation:

So it's obvious that their own people have no idea how the rakeback is calculated. It has ALWAYS been that way (except for a brief stretch I believe when perhaps a couple of their own people maybe read about it on here and stopped claiming it was contributed when it obviously wasn't).
I think this is entirely inexcuseable for them not to fix this with their own support because it leads to their own customers being really really confused when they clearly see it's dealt-hand and NOT contributed.
But I still don't think that's an excuse to be abusive to them.

The only answer I received as to why I was closed was "management decisions." That's it.

I can only speculate that the last few posts I've made on 2+2 may have played part in it, but they wouldn't even answer why I was being closed aside from the vague answer.

Yes MB, I was rude to Narissa. But I did not curse at her, and I was far from abusive. And the rudeness was somewhat provoked by her. I have seen far worse chat at the tables towards other players (you should see the abuse I've taken from some regs and countless randoms who I've stacked HU whether legit or luckboxing) and about the site itself. I can reasonably assume that CS has taken much worse abuse from other players who can't control their mouth, as I have NEVER cursed or verbally abused any rep ever. I may curse on 2+2, but I only do so knowing it's filtered, and for the purpose of demonstrating frustration with a site I so desparately wanted to succeed.

I'm extremely upset the way they closed my account. But given the way they handle damn near everything, I can only hope I get my money back without problems. It's obvious they won't give me a straight answer, so wtf else can I do?

Heed my experience, be careful if you complain to support or on 2+2. I still don't know what specifically drove them to this, but the only two possibilities are the posts I've made on this forum thread and my posted conversation with Narissa.

WSEX are overreacting terribly if they closed the account because of abusive language in that chat session.

It is totally understandable if customers sometimes go over the line with their language towards support, especially when the quality of the answers they get from support is low.

This "abuse" was nowhere near serious enough to cause an account closure.

Of course it is usually better as a customer to keep your cool if you want support to do something for you, but that's another story.

Wow.

I'm a former regular interested in coming back for football season. I got the email last week and decided since it mentioned deposit bonuses in Sept. that I would wait until then. I did notice the lack of mention of the current rakeback rate.

However, after reading the last page and a half of this thread, I'm not going to bother. I can get better lines/vig at other sportsbooks and I can certainly find other poker sites that will get things right, not give me hassle, and not close my account if I complain.

I wasn't playing there currently, but add me to the boycott anyhow.

I agree that ppl shouldn't be abusive to other ppl. Support is probably trying the best they can. It is not an easy job and I'm thankful that someone does it for I wouldn't want to.

But support didn't really listen to Teflon and therefore didn't really try to help him (they regurgitated but didn't really try). I didn't like the tone in "Do you expect to just sit at a table and receive rakeback?". I interpreted that to be insulting as many other parts of the conversation. But that is as stated here a matter of interpretation.. And it may be that Teflon is used to being more hotheaded and others interpret it to be meaner than intended.

If what we have seen here is the reason he is banned I really think it's strange. It's a kind of doublestandard that cheaters and chat-abusers doesn't get banned while someone steaming a little at support does.

Agreed. Very weird and bad business if WSEX is banning people for being a little irate with customer service and voicing their opinions here.

Some of the rules are pretty harsh, for example

'Props are not permitted to play any tournaments. Not only is Rakeback not paid for tournament play, but if you cash in a tournament the winnings will be removed from your account!"

A reg would have to really think before agreeing to be in that prop program, even if an offer was extended.

Keep in mind I was not even e-mailed about this and have yet to receive one. The client logged me off while I was typing a post on here, and when I tried to re-open it, received the errors, and had to contact them about it.

TeflonDawg, if you learned anything, I hope you learned that dealing with somebody using "chat" is almost impossible......

Boy, I seem to be missing the entire storyline about the rake.

Isn't it this simple.....using last weeks rate of 75%.

If I won a pot where the rake was $2.00.
I got $1.50 back and the house kept .50 cents.
And nobody else got paid, right?

I don't really care much for the tournaments. For me a propping deal would be much more worth since I mainly play cashgames.

The rake har always been shared-------> great for tight players

75% the rest of this week

Wrong. Everyone who was dealt cards splits the $1.50. This is assuming whoever verified it's still dealt hands is correct. Easy enough to verify using pokertracker.

Prop bet on whether Stars gets Badugi before the WSEX poker room closes?

It is obvious he was banned because of the [legitimate] criticisms he leveled here on 2+2 at wsex. Wsex is a disgrace, what utter dirtbags. 2+2ers ought to be outraged at these a-holes for banning a guy who posts his gripes about a site on 2+2 and is then banned by the site.

Then fact that wsex management have ran away from this board like a bunch of little scared chickens speaks volumes. Once again:

WSEX_JEREMY WHERE ARE YOU??? WSEX_GM (FRED BALFOUR) WHERE ARE YOU ??? TOO SCARED TO POST HERE ANYMORE??

I love WPEX and who really cares about a 10% drop in rakeback as long as I am winning more there than at other sites I stay there. The less 2+2ers on the site the better.

Hello everyone,

It has been a while, but I have been very busy and have waited to post some responses.

As you know, we released the new version of the WSEX.com Poker Room. Due to the delayed release until Tuesday, we will be giving everyone 75% Rake Back this week. On Monday September 1, 2008 the new Rake Back of 65% will commence.

Now, there are many reasons why we made this very small reduction of 10%. The main reason is to build this room. We are using the extra money for Affiliates and Marketing in order to drive traffic to this site. It is really that simple. At 75% Rake Back, there is no margin to build the site. I don’t need to tell you that it costs money to host, maintain, manage, develop and support any site.

We as a team need to drive traffic and recruit NEW players. In order to offer you promotions, it takes money. Basically, we are reinvesting all of the money (and then some) back into Poker in order to give you all what currently exists. We will be introducing 100% Deposit Bonuses based on Rake like most of the other sites have.

I came to this company well after the 100% and 75% Rake Back offers were introduced. The changes might seem drastic, but I still think it is the best deal out there and with the proper traffic, you will be receiving more money back than you would at any other site.

Please keep in mind that any and all of these changes that you see have an ultimate purpose in mind. The removal of the MTT Fee Rake Back was my decision and it is to offset the fact that we are giving players the ability to participate in over $40,000 of VIP Added events each month. These tournaments will increase over time as the player base increases. WSEX will always continue to give back to the players.

It is a very difficult balance in order to try and please everyone when making changes, having the money to Market properly, to offer Promotions and Bonuses. I think that you will see that the changes made will assist in building the room.

As stated, we will be offering a 100% Deposit Bonus starting in September. I do not have a date for the completion of the development but you will be notified when it is ready.

My main focus has always been to build the room. That has not changed.

Jeremy

I think the solution with 65% rakeback is better than any scaled system when building the site!

But it is a slap in the face when other players at the table recieve 100% rakeshare. There should be no props and there shouldn't be better deal for new players even if it's only 5%. Who wants to be treated unfairly? Why should he get more than me?

This is specially aggrovating when being an agressive player with tight props at the table- the props will get more than 100% since its rakeshare..

Please atleast make it contributed as the site always has claimed. It will really promote agressive games (more rake for you).

buddy - I've leveled legit criticisms on here all the time and have never been banned.

xxx - The 'no tourney' thing isn't that uncommon for some propping programs. Perhaps a bit stricter than usual but not really that big a deal. I've seen harsher rules for some prop stuff before.

teflon - them not e-mailing you about closing it is probably not a big deal. You contacted them right away when your client closed. If you hadn't then I assume they would have contacted you eventually...perhaps in an hour or two. Being upset that they don't e-mail you BEFORE they close the account instead of after shouldn't really be an issue here.

all - regardless of how I feel about his acct being closed I'm with a lot of you that they've been acting pretty goofy the past few days especially.
I was very seriously considering depositing there again to take advantage of the football season deposit-bonus but I'm definitely thinking twice about that now.
I don't feel that my money would be in any danger. I'm just not in love with them as a company right now I guess. And, as mentioned earlier, their lines for sports events aren't exactly the best available on the internet anyway.

Would be kind of curious to see how the math works on that exactly.
Maybe it's a way to justify it to the superiors who don't understand the math very well but somehow I'm doubting the numbers really add up to support this claim. Just a hunch though.

Otherwise Jeremy, thanks for appearing in the thread. Definitely hard to do when you guys are getting beat up pretty badly so I appreciate you posting and I hope other 2+2'ers do as well.

Few other topics I hope you address:

- The unfairness and unhappiness that you are bringing in new players to get 100% while your most loyal players over the past several months/years are stuck at 65%.
Many believe it should be the other way around.

- Please respond regarding teflon's banning at your site. Did his posts have anything to do with it? Are players free to criticize you and your site on here without fear of being banned?

- Cashouts still seem to be very slow for some players. I wasn't following it that much but some players evidently paid extra for overnight delivery of their check and ended up waiting for a very long time. Seems you've had some serious cashout delays for a really long time now and I wonder if you are any closer to solving it. I practically wonder if you are having cash problems at the site but I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

And Jeremy, Please explain the RAKE procedure...

Under the 75% rakeback, I was under the impression that if there was a total of $2 raked, the winner of the hand got $1.50 back and the house .50 cents.