And both options are a big deal for PokerStars ... because?
Also, in comparison: What do you think, are there more guys trying to win money in the $16s and $27s or people really (! not just dreaming) trying to move their way up from the micros?

Come on

I just found it hilarious that you were telling the microstakes grinders to get a job rather than grind up. As though they were grinding up their $100 rolls and living off them at the same time. I mean COME ON.

And by the way what matters is where the fish come from, and that is mostly the lower stakes.

Why are you defending Stars ripping off micro players? It shouldn't be in anyone's interest to rake the micros to death.

So first you up the Rake ..

Then to kind of compensate you make the formats longer instead ??

The new structure to the 50/50's is terrible

and you can't even be bothered to tell us ..

I thought your fkn software was Broke !

plz put 5min back on 180s turbo blinds levels !

the variance was already high, no need it to increase more with 3min lvl

This. It should be different for different number of players/type of game (NLHE,PLO,etc.).

lol @ 'improved rake' !

Ya right...changes are a result of player feed back...I would like to know which players asked for higher rake!!!!!!!!

I also doubt very much that the rake is decreased...pokerstars is obv. just trying to make up for loses of black friday!!!

Way to suck stars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 to the second paragraph in particular.

These changes are very poor and the end game of 180s is just a joke now

+1

Once I have finished my reload bonus I will be leaving stars unless the rake is lowered at the micro / low stakes.

I love the stars software (except you need the FT deal function) and the stars support, hence I have stayed here even without the best RB for me (not supernova), but stars should now be trying to attract new customers and I can't really justify paying this rake to play on stars.

Blind structure sucks.
Also the STT bounty games(PLO) you can now register more than 1 at a time. Which sucks because 1 douche registers for 5000 at once and no one else wants to register. I sat for like an hour last night and decided to unregister because I was sick of waiting. WTF. It makes the Lobby look like shiiit.

lol @ 'improved rake' !

assuming a session of 100 30s and 30 50s (instead of 35s and 55s respectively) one stands to lose $18 as total bis have gone down significantly more than the rake %. And, assuming a rakeback %of 45, one would lose another $33. Total money lost $51 ! at 25 days of playing in a month , money lost = $1250 . $18k in a year.

thank you stars !!! :-s


please please please revert back to old structure.. I would rather pay the 'higher' rake !

( hope i didn't mess up the math.. lol )

to add,

only games where rake % has changed is 50s (1%) and 100s (0.92%), where games rarely run ( maybe a total of 10 games per hour at peak hours for 18s ). 30s are pretty much the same as 35s and 20s are a rip off compared to 16s cause obv they had the heaviest traffic. I very much doubt there is a net rake reduction as a whole . This seems like a change for stars to make up for the lost revenue.

ya got that feeling ² elfuno

u can keep your rake increasements(either way it sucks) but please change the structures again, this is ridicilous

endgames are crapshoots in each form of sng, which is rly bad for sng grinders by losing our edge

Am I getting f***ked worst of all?

Previously 6max reg speed $13 - 8.3% rake

Now $10.95 or $21.90 - 9.5% rake

FML

45 second time bank too ... Why ?

You people make No Sense WHATSOEVER

I'll just waste it all on the bbl to p*ss everybody off and make your games last even Loonnggeerr

Oh dear. I logged in to start another 45 man grind session and just stared in disbelief at the lobby. However, after taking a few minutes to take stock of the situation I thought I would do the mature thing and find out a little more about WTF was going on before declaring that my pokerworld was about to end. I read all the info, read the chatrooms, read the new blind structures, payouts, rakes etc. Then I decided that I needed to give the new games a try and see how different they were. I conclude that I am not a happy bunny! I have to say that I certainly don’t begrudge Pokerstars making a profit, even a huge profit. Delivering poker to the masses is their business and they have been at the forefront of the online poker revolution. However, as with any business, the worst thing you can do is upset your most loyal customers.With these changes Pokerstars simply isn’t appreciating that for loyal grinders playing Poker is our business. We have spent time (therefore money) on training, on learning our chosen game to find every edge, on reviewing our play to continuously strive to improve our own bottom line (roi). Now with the payout and blind structures being altered the game has changed and therefore the profit of every loyal grinder is at risk. So we will have to spend more time (money) making the necessary adjustments to once again stay ahead of the field. It is one thing to find a new site, or a new game yourself and to commit to learning it inside out. That is your choice. But these changes having been forced on us from pokerstars are a kick in the nuts and a dent in the wallet to all loyal customers everywhere.The new payouts mean that if you finish 3rd 4th or 5th you win more buy ins than previously. Finishing 1st 2nd 6th or 7th wins you less buy ins. So regardless of the blind structure changes that are likely to negatively impact ROI, if you are able to win at the same rate as usual the reduced top 2 pay outs will reduce ROI as well. The new timebank for these games is a very very bad idea. It has been said that despite all the changes tournies are lasting the same length as before. If this is true and it looks to be a fair statement then stuffing everyones time bank full at the start and then again at the final table can only mean one thing – less hands to play in the tourney. Less hands to see will mean everyone will have less spots to make the right moves which will in turn make more people more desperate to shuv which will again create less spots for everyone else. Add to that the fact that using your time bank for “stalling” will become a necessary tactic in late game then even less hands are playable per tourney. These will all contribute to less +`EV spots for all thus reducing edge for the better players and increasing variance for everyone. My best finish so far in the new format is 5th (wow!) and I get the overwhelming feeling that I am running out of time to make a move all the time. Doing a little digging I found that this 5th place finish in the new format saw me dealt 63 hands. My previous four 5th place finishes in the old format saw me dealt 87, 95, 84 and 84 hands respectively. This is a significant difference and proof that these games now attract much more variance. Others out there that have won these tourneys how many hands were you dealt compared to old structure? This is terrible news for our ROI. To conclude.
Pokerstars, charge more rake if you need but don’t mess with the structures – this is the real killer for your regs. Please please do the right thing and restore the old structures for the 45 & 180 man turbo’s. Before it is too late.

To claim the rake is slightly reduced overall is a joke. Please can you give statistics to back this up Steve.

I think players had just about accepted the old rake increase but these new format changes just make no sense to me whatsoever ... if there is a point to it all please tell me Steve .. as i'm just some dumbass supernova sng grinder who can't quite work it all out

Did your online Pro's help come up with it all for you ?

The new lobby is like a long, unreadable paragraph I think is what this guy is trying to say. (tl;dr tho)

Yeah sorry. Right then.

Pokerstars, you are allowed to make much profit.

Increasing the rake I can live with.

New structure for 45 & 180 turbos stinks. Time bank outrageous. The games last as long as before but with many less hands dealt thus increasing variance and decreasing edge for better players. "Stalling" using massive time banks will become prevalent.

Rubbish news for all the loyal grinders who helped build your business.

I think you missed some punctuation between "paragraph" and "I"

New poster here, just wanted to add my $0.02.


Pro's
The new buy in's seem alright, a $20 buy in for the 45's and 180's has been too long coming, and much better then the previous 12 - 27 jump that was around before.

Con's


Increased rake for the micro's. - I was one of these guys like a year and a bit ago, and empathise with anyone who's irritated by the rake increases.

Structure adjustments. - The new structure works ok up to a certain point in the 180 mans, more time at 20-30 big blinds is great, but the structure at the end is horrible.

An example of this I just had was with the 3 minute blind levels, blinds were 400-800. Goes on break. We come back they're 500-1000. Two people late in getting back so both time bank to max. Another shorty dwells up hoping to cash and it finally folds round. Next hand we're at 600-1200, two more shorties dwell up again, and other a bit of flop play we see the next hand at 700-1400, and after two hands of this level, we're up again to 800/1600!

Effectively, after being on a 7.4k or whatever stack, a guy in my position folds 4 hands and goes from about 9 bigs, to under 3.


Would be interesting if someone has data on average stacks in the blind levels from before and compare them to after. I'd also be interested to see if there was some way of loosely measuring variance (maybe like % flips won by the winner's before and after? - I'm sure someone has a better idea though)

cliffs appreciated , sorry for being a dick