http://www.dragthebar.com/poker-blog...jump-post-1330

So for some of the biggest earners on stars who were significantly past one reward but not quite to another, this overall is a good deal, and somehow everyone else should be thankful? One guy gets hundreds more than he expected while a ton lose hundreds and pokerstars "holds" onto excess FPPs, and somehow this rare player who comes away winning from this makes it alright?

Seriously, if you're going to argue that this is acceptable you might want to just stick with your argument that screwing over a bunch of players is fair game and not point out a rare exception who benefits, as if that changes anything.

This is ridicules. Those who hoard their FPPs and let their VIP levels drop made a conscious decision to let the value of their FPPs drop. They know they are taking the risk if they aren't able to regain the VIP level, the FPP value is lost. You can't expect Pokerstars to value the fpps base on an arbitrary time in the past or what you intended to do in to future had Black Friday never happen. To be fair for everyone including themselves, Pokerstars has to value the fpps according to when the play stopped. Which is what they have done.

As I understand it: FPPs have a "potential" value, not an "actual" value - since they can be converted at different rates, depending on your VIP status. They are not taxable income until they are converted into something tangible (cash, an iPod, whatever). Once that happens, you have taxable income for the value of whatever you received in exchange for the points.

I had earned two Step 4 tickets, which were converted to cash and added to my account when I cashed out.

I'm struggling to find any examples where FPPs have been traded for anything other than what Stars have given for them. Could you point me in the right direction?

A single point is not worth anything, nor should it be.

4,000 points = something
10,000 points = something
50,000 points = something

etc......

Some rewards have more bang for the point, but the points themselves are not currency.

Eh. . .the points are currency because they were used to buy cash or other items that you wanted. They're really no different then a foreign currency. The value of the points changed depending on certain situations but they were always worth something.

I haven't gone back to do find them but this is a good point. Stars THEMSELVES have directly referred to the 1.6c figure and also done some percentage calls using that figure when it makes them look better.

The rules were changed. It's completely ridiculous. Really bothered by stars on this issue. It will factor in heavily on my decision of where to play should they re-enter the u.s. market.

that is a bluff. i call.

I saw the post. The stars rep used 1.6c in an illustration and everybody thinks it was a contract to supply goods.

The market conditions have changed. Why do you think Stars should pay out as if nothing has happened?

Next you'll be claiming that they have been conspiring with the DoJ to screw the US out of their FPPs for years.

lol

They may lose you (although i agree with the previous poster that you are bluffing) but they will gain near 100% of FT/AP/UB and of course almost all their old Stars players back. I think they will accept this outcome.

I put the odds of Stars ever allowed back into the US at less than 10%

Of course I am basing this on nothing but my own opinion

That's right your going to play on FT or UB because of this. LMAO... Your full of it.

I think the odds are less then 10%. To much politics and to much control by the established land based casinos for stars to have much of a shot. . . .I really really really hope I'm wrong.

Apparently there are some other poker sites out there besides the few we had a choice to play on. Not to sure about this partypoker though, sounds like a scam, or any of these others ones listed on this site.


http://www.pokerscout.com/

Lets all act like the big 3 that didn't pull out in 06 are going to be the only ones coming back. While the DoJ gives the finger to the hundreds of other sites that followed the law they didn't have to.

nvm

Glad your still contributing to this conversation . If you don't mind I'm going to put you back on ignore.. If you have anything constructive to add besides blindly defending stars please PM me. Until then..

Huh? How am I full of it? I'm currently playing on merge and am somewhat pleased with the site. I also assume that if stars came back to the u.s. there would also be a ton of other options. I'm not full of it at all. Between this and their sng moneygrab I just don't feel the same way about stars as I did two or three years ago.

I'm not saying that I definitely wouldn't go back. But I'm not overjoyed that they took my $300 and did similar to other players and my trust in them that they would treat their customers fairly especially on this fpp stuff has been breached. There's a guy with 1m Fpps who is currently bronze star and evidently he is stuck as bronze star. This is a big flag for me. I am appalled they would treat a customer that way. If they mistreated one player that badly and mistreated thousands of others somewhat incorrectly to their own benefit then it becomes kind of hard to trust them. And their judgment on the sng rake increases is appalling.

If ft or party had done either the fpp thing or the sng rake increase I would have just laughed (mostly) and said it was no big surprise knowing how they seem to operate sometimes. With stars it truly surprises and kind of saddens me. I expect them to not behave that way and I expect them to treat their customers as though they are respected and valued and appreciated. I feel they have gotten away from that somewhat.

Merge is a big question mark for me. Still barely just met them. But I'm impressed with their skins' representatives in the forums. I can only hope the value remains decent and the cashouts aren't too hopelessly difficult. But if they don't screw this up they have every chance to win me over as a customer. A couple weeks ago I was investigating options in Canada at least part-time to continue on stars. Won't be doing that now at least although maybe that will change. Merge has my trust for the time being and stars has certainly lost some of it. Not all of it. I don't think they would run out with my account balance or something as I would think ub might. But stars is taking millions of dollars of the rewards their own players earned which is an oldschool party-esque thing to do. And is the type of reason why I left party before they had pulled out of the u.s.

Stars is #1 in traffic, that doesn't mean they are the best in everything. It just means they have the most players.

Stars is great all around, but there are hundreds of sites if you not from the US . Its silly to think they are #1 in everything when you have only ever tried 1-2 options in the last 5 years. Its also downright stupid to compare every aspect of stars workings against the other 2 big US sites.

Did you know that Bodog has a CS phone number? I can call and get my question answered in less than 5 minutes. If were going by those standards then stars support is terrible compared to Bodog. I know sounds stupid when I say it like this, however people have no problem saying Full tilt support his garbage using nothing but a comparison to Pokerstars.

I truly used to believe they were the best in customer service, taking care of their customers, listening to their customers, and respecting their place in the whole business model. All of that is up in there for me now. If they are still #1 in those areas after the FPP and SNG stuff then I feel it certainly isn't by as much of a margin as before.

I still like their software the best of all of them. Merge's is actually surprisingly okay for me so that's kind of nice. Works better for my liking than FT for example. And Stars also has 24 max tables as opposed to less at most other sites which I appreciate. The game quality is pretty questionable. Lots of fairly nitty games of course which is likely a byproduct of the 24-table max and quality software. Pros and cons imo.

Bodog doesn't do it for me. 4 table max I believe. CS phone number isn't a deal maker or breaker for me although I have advocated Stars to get that and live-chat for years. But Stars cust-support is quite good even for e-mail only. Probably an A...or maybe an A- on their worst days. But I don't need it that often anyway.

I think that's one of the big problems we have. Even after all this stars is most likely #1 in most aspects. However now it has nothing to do with stars just being great and more because the other sites just keep looking worse and worse.

sync - I mostly agree. I can't say for sure that Stars is still number 1 though because I'm just not very familiar with many of the non-U.S. sites. As I said, I felt safe with my funds on Stars and still would. But I also felt safe with my FPP's and their value on Stars and didn't think it would be necessary to gobble up tourney tickets while they were still available or else get hosed on the total value.

Holy ****. It's true, people really will find anything to complain about.

I was at 240k VPPs on Black Friday and planned on achieving SNE this year. Should Stars give me 24% of all the milestone bonuses cumulatively? Or should I just be happy that they're giving me 40% of the 300k milestone?

Oh, Stars is going to hold onto a small amount of FPPs in most accounts? Well at least they're rapidly processing cashouts and not charging processing fees to a bunch of players who will likely never make Stars another dime in future revenues.

Someone compared UB stealing from their customers with Stars "stealing" a few FPPs. If you think that's an appropriate comparison, I feel sorry for you and your lack of analytical ability.