Im not style, you made the comment to him, my account isnt banned, again wrong person. I am friends with them and my account is fine. The issue since you apparently CANT READ, is that FT refuses to say WHY they are banned, no proof. I know that both style and tulegit are not at fault, but since everything started at Tulegit I think they believe he might be a bot, which he isnt. I dont see them banning accounts because one low level person did something.

i guess i should have said "you guys" bring it up at every opportunity. i didn't read that closely because i don't really care what happens, but since you chose to insult me, i'll respond in kind.

you and your friends are full of ****. one of you, if not more, did something illegal and got caught. style seems awfully calm for a winning 200nl/400nl regular who claims to have gotten screwed over, which imo means he's either pleading his case to ftp (i've never done anything wrong, you can tell from my account, i didn't know __________ was doing something so stupid, please reinstate me), or he was involved in some way.

and now that you mention it, wasn't your account suspended initially with the others? i'm pretty sure i remember reading that. which means you already used up your group's "ignorance" plea, i guess.

uhh...u mean my typing up an entire post/thread about it is not enough? What should I have done that would've looked more "legitimate" to you? How "pissed" off do I need to be for it to be reasonable.

Let me just say this as I think this thread is going nowhere. Poker is my career and various poeple on these 2plus2 threads are my colleagues/friends. I respect many players and they have the same respect for me as well. I would not jeopardize any relationship with my mentors or poker friends by going on here and making stupid posts about something I know is a lie. What I have said is the truth - we really do NOT KNOW why we are banned and the only assumption is that FT thinks Tulegit is a bot and they banned anyone associated with him.

Many people are assuming that Tulegit has done something shady and not tell me about it. I am WELL AWARE OF THIS. But in my opinion, I just don't see that being likely because of 2 things I know of him.

1) He makes good money playign nl100 by himself, I know his game and I know it makes money because I used to play that way (check his income if you want, at one point he's had a 3ptbb at nl100 earlier this year). So I don't believe he would do anything to risk gettin banned because he makes good money already (I've warned him about players being banned by doing shady things before).

2) He's computer illiterate. yes yes that's a "convenient" alibi. But what can I say. He is! And it is IMO that that is the reason why I THINK he's innocent as well. This obvious doesn't mean IT'S YOUR OPINION. And this is not "EVIDENCE" that he's innocent. It's just what I know of him.

Just look at the facts man. Again I will repeat so that you conveniently don't have to read through the thread. FTP bans us without giving reason and allows us to cashout. That narrows down to only BOTTING. And they usually confiscate money for botting, but they didn't this time. Why? Why? Why? And if you read this thread, it boils down to that they are SUSPICIOUS and are just BEING CAUTIOUS. Which means that there should be a very good chance that they will ban innocent players just to be CAUTIOUS.

My account has never been suspended, investigated or anything of the sort. I've know tulegit for near 3 years strictly from our growing together from NL25, at one point I took time off and he became a bit of a mentor for me. I live on the opposite side of the country. Wouldn't make sense that he was cheating when we sent hands back and forth all day asking eachothers advice on how we played them.

i've been reading for a bit, this thread and the one last month, and it turns out i was mistaken about abstract, so i apologize for that.

as for you style, it seems pretty clear that you're in a different boat than the other people involved: you've been playing higher, for longer, more successfully.

wrt tulegit, maybe he's winning now, but when i played with him, he was a marginal winner at best, not a threat, and exploitable -- 3 things which don't apply to you, right? the one thing he did do was put in crazy volume, and this thread is not the first time i've read that people think he's a bot. which, as you've assessed (accurately imo), is how one gets their account closed and their funds returned to them -- ft has suspicions but no incontrovertible proof, so they tell you your business is no longer welcome.

maybe i'm wrong about all this, and you guys got blindsided and are truly getting the shaft. my problem with that is that i would think your personal body of work should be sufficient to convince them you've done nothing wrong. i mean, you've got hundreds of thousands of hh's, a graph and stats that show your progression, improvement and winnings, and you've paid a lot of rake over the last 4 years. so not only are you solely guilty by association, but you've got 4 years' worth of evidence that you're an honest, upstanding citizen.

now that i think about it, though, i have a question. if abstract's account was associated with the rest of yours (assumption on my part, you guys seem tight), how did he avoid the banhammer?

you're a pro, so you know better -- but imo one of your associates has done something they're not coming clean about.

Why would you think this? I'm extremely tight with other pros who I've never exchanged funds with or played on same IP, whereas I may be "associated" with people I barely know, and they do something wrong, and I'm toast.

FTP Stasi secret police banhammer != reality.

lol

when i said associated i was assuming he was associated via transfer and ip sign-in. since he's on the other side of the country that would have to be in vegas or during vacations, i guess.

No i only met them in person last month when i was there for WSOP, didnt stay together so never logged IPs on any computers. One transfer from Tulegit for all the computer work I did is all (HUD setup and AHk screen script).

I've no idea what is going on here, but if you felt it necessary before to warn him not to do shady things, then how can you be so sure that he hasn't done anything shady?

Thanks. I also thinks that is strange. Why would you say something like that to a normal person?

You learn someone to drive. The first you say is that you shouldnt steal cars? OK?

You learn someone to cook food. The first you say is that you shouldnt stab someone with the knife? OK?

i think this is pretty ****ed up. we should keep bumping the thread until ftp responds.

Or the cheaters explain what they have done. I wonder why they have to play at the same table. I wonder why they havent explain to all the others at the table that they are friends/family. I wonder why they winrate dont go down when they play with each other (they play really hard at each other).I wonder why he must expalin to his friens that he shouldnt cheat.

I wonder why, i wonder why.

Whoa whoa, dont come on here with 7 posts and start calling people cheaters. Style and Tulegit didn't cheat, I can not vouch for anyone else. Again they locked Tulegits account first, and I think they believe botlike activity, no cheating was done, and if cheating was done they would seize money. Only 2 people played at the same tables on occasion not often, and never from same IPs, I can walk in to the Bellagio and play 1/2 with my brother and not have to announce that we are related. They never colluded and hand histories would prove that. They also have vastly different playing styles and winrates.

Shady things include going to Table Ratings, which nearly everyone on FT is guilty of, in fact its funny to watch a slew of players read off players PTR stats while they are at the tables. Shady things include not farming stats with Spadeeye even though FT freely allowed it to happen, even though it was against their TOS, hence why SpadeEye light was created.

They would have confiscated all of the monies in a snap if they had seen one ounce of cheating. I remember Full Tilt security explaining a while back that they will be asking a few people that they are baffled by the way they make profits to leave no questions asked just to be on th safe side. Could it be the poker system Op is teaching is to systematic and resembles the system and numbers that proven bots have employed?

No, there is no system, we all play different we just ask each other what the think is all. Each player is very different in play.

being pedantic but fyp

i'm worried that FTP getting a bit militant(sic) on people now, not checking the actual details or case history

*sigh. Maybe it's because I am more aware of what's going on with online gaming and that anyone can be banned for downloading certain softwares and that maybe I am just warning my fellow protege not to do anything stupid? It's not like there are no articles regarding multi-accounters and botters being banned. Anyone playing for living online should be aware of these things and yes, i've mentioned to my brother and tulegit SINCE they play the same limits, that they as long as they play eachother normally or hard, nothing would happen.

I think it would be pretty stupid of me to NOT warn them since they both play the same limit and are taught by me.

My point is, they know about other players gettin banned for downloading bad softwares, colluding, multi accounint, or whatever etc.. So unless they did massive research on HOW NOT TO GET BANNED - which i don't think they would waste their time with since they barely research softwares like HEM, PT or PAhud - which are very beneficial to their game. I just don't see how they would risk the thought of using bots - especially when everyone heard FT banned the trio. They make money on their own.

five4suited;

His personal body of work earns him a right to be told what he did, or some explanation. That personal body of work goes a long way in earning a trusting relationship with an employer(FTP) and he does deserve a better reasoning or explanation regardless because of this body of work.

the problem isn't whether they cheated or not, the problem is that there is inconclusive evidence(just 4 hands???) and the fact that they confiscated ALL the money, not just the money from the sngs they played in together. like other posters have pointed out, this is like shoplifting and getting a death sentence.

what they should have done was confiscated all the money in the sngs they were proven to be colluding in(and not just a few hands for evidence), redistribute to the other players in those sngs, then give them a very strong warning and ban them for a month or two. if not the month or two, then ban them and at least let them cash out, but not seize the entire bankroll.

you don't see these kind of threads about pokerstars.

edit:

wait im sorry, I meant to post this in the "Full Tilt Poker Seized 25K from my account", but most of it applies anyway hahah.

flame me for having a low post count or whatever but i posted a similar response in another thread, im not calling you guys cheaters or anything and being a long term player on fulltilt myself I would be very annoyed at being banned, however I dont have friends who play poker and dont have five buddies where I can instant message and discuss hands etc, and find it wierd that you guys dont think that to a player like myself, it doesnt looks suspicous when 5 guys clearly play similar stakes and have such a close relationship with each other. Therefore I would think that ftp feels the same way. from ftp point of view how do they know which player is playing on which account when you use the same ip or computer etc.

I want to reiterate that I am not calling you cheaters or anything but if you look at it from another players prospective or from ftp it does look dodgy. I dont like the thought I can be playing some low limit dude who has 4 buddies helping him out, If i was a losing player I would be more concerned with the situation, but luckily for me I win at low and mid stakes for a decent amount and dont need the help of my buddies.

I might not have made myself clear in this thread as im tired but my point is, it does look starnge that 5 guys use the same computer and ip and clearly communicate etc when playing

Read before you post, only 2 players played same stakes and one was a a winner one was not, they didnt play that often together, they NEVER used the same computer and never on the same IP at the same time.

Where are you getting this information from? Read the post and don't clutter and add things that are not true, it only confuses the thread

guilty by association. like i said. your friends do something criminal makes you a criminal as well especially in the eyes of the poker gestapo. lucky that you didnt get money seized.